Here's my dilemma... Installed a decatted stock HD header about a month ago with my RCX 4" mufflers, tuned with the FP3, and the result for me was tinny and obnoxiously loud. Heat reduction was the reason for the header switch. For my taste, the sound with the stock catted HD pipe and the RCX mufflers was right on. So this weekend I put the stock HD mufflers back on with the decatted header and, well, it's a bit louder than stock but not all that exciting. I want to keep heat down as Florida gets blazing hot in the summer. A couple of questions. Would Power Duals be more solid sounding than the decatted stock pipe? Any more exciting muffler suggestions to complement the decatted header without breaking the bank or ridding me of what hearing I have left? Thanks in advance.
Here's my dilemma... Installed a decatted stock HD header about a month ago with my RCX 4" mufflers, tuned with the FP3, and the result for me was tinny and obnoxiously loud. Heat reduction was the reason for the header switch. For my taste, the sound with the stock catted HD pipe and the RCX mufflers was right on. So this weekend I put the stock HD mufflers back on with the decatted header and, well, it's a bit louder than stock but not all that exciting. I want to keep heat down as Florida gets blazing hot in the summer. A couple of questions. Would Power Duals be more solid sounding than the decatted stock pipe? Any more exciting muffler suggestions to complement the decatted header without breaking the bank or ridding me of what hearing I have left? Thanks in advance.
My bud has a decatted header & he's running Harley street cannons I think, sound pretty good. Deep but not overly loud. Something to think about anyway. I'm guessing most aftermarket muffs are going to be pretty aggressive sounding without the cat
Rush Racing Big Louie mufflers did the trick for me when I had a Fuel Moto dual head pipe on my '12 RG. Nice deep rumble to them. They are now on a friends Ultra and he loves them as well.
Thanks all for the suggestions so far. Giving me some ideas to research as the only alternative with the RCX would be removing and wrapping the baffles. Looking into Street Cannons, Big Louies, and the various V&H offerings. Anyone else with other suggestions or further info or experience with the above?
I have the Titan OS 450s and they're pretty nice. Nice low rumble tone at idle and bark a bit when you get on it. I'm at the point in life where I can appreciate the quieter exhaust and not a loud obnoxious roar all the time. Helps hear the radio better too! :wink:
The supertraps are nice because you can adjust the volume with them.
Want it louder, add some disks.
Too loud, remove some disks.
I'm running 10 disks in each of mine and I work nights and have not had any remarks from my neighbors. (most of them are afraid of me for some reason, I have yet to figure that one out... Must be the Harley)
I can leave my house and not make a ton of noise but it still barks when you twist it. Its not obnoxious like the rienharts but still has a nice sound.
Just one more opinion for you to mull over, sorry about that.
Thanks again for more feedback. I'm sure there are members, lurkers, google searchers, etc. who can benefit from this info shared, so I never hesitate to ask. Update, this morning I reinstalled the RCX 4" slash downs. My wife thinks I'm crazy. An interesting aside.... discovered a reason for the tinny sound I experienced. When I installed the decatted header, I over inserted the the crossover connection past the ridge on the header connector. I found this out when I removed the RCX the first time on the left and the crossover connection down-rotated rather easily despite being torqued to specs. Got everything reseated properly, torqued down and that issue is now resolved. Small exhaust leak, duh. Got the FP3 tuned for V&H Power Duals and Monster Rounds with 3 firecrackers and back in business. Still considering options for the future but keeping the RCX on for now and learning to control the beautiful open throttle roar while in town.
:grin:
Just for those de-catting their stock head pipes. When you remove these it allows the oxygen sensors to cross talk so the bike won't adjust the rich/lean mixture correctly and most times it causes the motor to actually run leaner. Harleys run lean to start with and this is hard on you motor and produces more heat. Does it work? Of course it will work but if you have ever worked on a engine with 30,000 miles or so on the speedo, the tell, tell signs are there of running really lean. For those of you already doing this even with a tuner, look at your plugs after a 10 mile or so trip. Just be sure that you keep the rpm's up when pulling back into your area you live then hit the kill switch without letting the bike idle and you will get a proper reading on the color of your plugs. What you will find is a very ashen white color instead of toward the more tan or beige kind of color telling you it is running lean. Just food for thought. The only way to fix this on de-catted headers is to move the bungs up the pipe to prevent the cross talk. I never understood why Harley didn't put the bungs 3"s from the head like all other pipe manufacturers and tuners say is best.
Thanks for this info. Are you saying that these stock HD decatted headers "somewhat" properly tuned (sensor crosstalk) can lead to premature engine wear greater than the heat generated by the leanness and cat of the completely stock setup? I'm certainly not up for moving the bungs.....
I was off work today but had to go in for for an hour for a function. Tampa, 70 and sunny, quick 70 mile RT on the Glide, feeling fortunate. With the FP3, and stated exhaust mods only (no intake mods) the beast is unleashed and never performed or sounded better! I was definitely dealing with an exhaust leak at the crossover connection which prompted me to start this whole thread. On the interstate, 70 to 90 MPH in a flash with attitude. Thanks to all who responded!
Decatted my headpipe on my 2010 after warranty expired with 15,000 on the clock. Installed SE air filter and SE super tuner. 50,000 miles and running strong without any engine problems.
Getting conflicting info here, some scientific and well thought out, and some anecdotal. Even with a non cat header with properly positioned bungs, I'd worry about HD making good on the warranty in the event of engine issues. Keeping the HD decatted header for now and considering future power duals
That is a non issue on the aftermarket pipes as Harley will put just about any pipe you want on it. Unless it is proven that the aftermarket product caused the problem there is a law that covers you in those cases. Can't remember the law, but others on here have mentioned it before.
Excuse the ignorance. This is my first foray into HD's fuel injection. How far up the pipe should the bungs be moved? I'm sure the farther the better but a close proximity would be nice to know.
Also, I got a decatted stock pipe from a bud I ride with and was planning to install it as soon as I have a tuner in hand. I checked the inside of the pipe and there is a divider in the plenum that runs about 2" beyond the rear bung; essentially lengthening that pipe inside the cat's chamber.
So the question is... Is that far enough to prevent the cross talk?
Excuse the ignorance. This is my first foray into HD's fuel injection. How far up the pipe should the bungs be moved? I'm sure the farther the better but a close proximity would be nice to know.
Also, I got a decatted stock pipe from a bud I ride with and was planning to install it as soon as I have a tuner in hand. I checked the inside of the pipe and there is a divider in the plenum that runs about 2" beyond the rear bung; essentially lengthening that pipe inside the cat's chamber.
So the question is... Is that far enough to prevent the cross talk?
Most of the tuners suggest the bungs being about 3"s or so from the flange at the head. The depth of the oxygen sensor is just as important for proper reading. Off the top of my head I don't remember the optimal depth. Sometimes you have to grind a little off the top of the bung to achieve the proper depth. Basically on the de-catted stock head pipe, there is not enough distance from where the two pipes integrate to the oxygen sensors. As each cylinder goes thru the exhaust phase, where the pipes meet inversion happens sucking back on the other header pipe. This gives a false reading of being rich on that oxygen sensor then the ECM adjust or takes fuel away causing the cylinder to run leaner. Then the same happens on the opposite cylinder thru the same sequence. This lean issue cause by this causes the motor to run hotter and although won't damage it immediately, it does create issues down the road. I saw an Ultra Limited at my friends shop the other day that had been running like this since just after it was purchased. The head pipes were so discolored,more than I've ever seen and the spark plugs looked almost like that had been in a blast furnace and were almost white colored, ground strap almost eaten away. I can only imagine what the pistons and cylinder walls look like. My buddy said he sees this all the time.
Thank you for the info Smarty. I always enjoy learning. Would a good tuner be able to compensate for, or eliminate the cross talk?
Understand the basic engine theory. Just not up to speed on the whole injection/mapping/tuning thing yet. Hard to get out of the carburetor/straight pipe mindset.
The short answer is "no". The issue is reversion (not inversion). The exhaust gasses are pulled back towards the collector as each cylinder fires. There's very little overlap in the stock cams, so the issue's mitigated a bit, but it's still there. It's especially noticeable with Supertrapp mufflers with closed end caps. So basically you've got a wave of exhaust from the front cylinder that's backing up and reading on the rear cylinder's O2 sensor. You can't tune around that.
The best option is an aftermarket headpipe that's designed around O2 sensor placement. There are several offerings that will do what you want them to do, and they give you the option of using widebands up at the exhaust port should you decide to go that route.
I've never seen anyone use the stock narrowbands up at the exhaust port like the older bikes. Not saying it can't be done, but I'm not aware of anyone doing it.
a buddy has fuel moto headers with screaming eagle pipes,to quiet for me,but thats what he wanted.it does sound good when he is on it.i rode a 2015 ultra limited in new zealand a few weeks ago.no cat on bikes over there.stock pipes,thought i was on a sewing machine.really quiet for no cat
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