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Disappointed Dyno numbers on cam build

17K views 43 replies 28 participants last post by  hifiho 
#1 ·
I have a 2015 Rg with 14,000 miles on it and decided to put some mods on. I had my local indy (Qualified shop with a good Dyno Tuner) install S&S 551 cams, Arlen Ness big Sucker, S&S push rods, V&H Power Dual header, Rinehart 4" slip ons, and a Tuner.

The install went fine and the Dyno came in at a Max HP90 Max Torque 106. I really thought I would have gotten much more than that. It pulls ok, but with the stock HO engine with stock cams being much better than the older 103's. I do not see a lot of difference.

Anyone else think these numbers are low, or am I crazy. What else can I do without breaking the bank, already spent a bunch on what I have now.

Hoping for some input from the professional builders on this site.
 
#3 ·
I am not a engine builder by any means , but you cant always go by dyno charts, how does it feel when you ride the glide, can you feel the difference in power and accel, I know you were probably expecting more in the HP range but the torque numbers is what I would be concerned with, 106 Torque seems pretty good.
 
#4 ·
It feels a bit better than stock, but for the investment it does not seem like a good return on investment. I am wondering what else I can do to get more HP and Torque without going bigger motor. Like larger throttle body, head work, ect.

I still want a rock solid reliable motor though. I guess I want my cake and eat it too.
 
#5 ·
I wish I knew more about the S&S cams to give you feedback but I don't, I cant tell you the fueling or woods produce great gains in 103s, I have a 96 inch motor and the fueling 525 woke that shark up bigtime, torque was awesome pulling all the way up, totally different than stock, I know HP is what you where looking for but torque cams really make a difference in the seat of the pants dyno.
 
#7 ·
That sounds about right for those cams. Another forum member here, "madmat", used these cams with a 107", Dragula 2 and headwork and got 96 hp/130 tq. As he stated in his post, these aren't big hp cams. Those Rinehart slip ons might be hurting you too. Sorry that you're not impressed with the seat of the pants dyno either.
 
#9 ·
I was looking for the Torque to be higher, I wanted it down low with lots of pull. I think the cams are as advertised, torque pull from 1500 rpm to 4000 rpm.

8 Ft lbs of torque over basic stock was disappointing for the money. Now looking for advise on the next step to gain more HP and Tq without bigger displacement.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Post your dyno graph so we can see the curves. The HP/TQ your seeing sound like they are in the ball park. I have the Drago's 580 with different exhaust and have higher #'s but will be expected depending on what each use in their build.

What tuner? How good the the Dyno operator with that tuning device? lots of variables here.
 
#11 ·
In my experience I spent $237 pm a 57H cam, a D&D Fatcat, left the stock a/c (it really works good the way Harley designed it with the washable filter) and ended up with right at 100hp and 115 tq. Could not be happier. If I had done some head work, I think I would have been looking at 103-105 hp and maybe close to 119-121 torque. I like it like it is. Very responsive and fun to ride.
 
#13 ·
Do you have a before and after dyno sheets?

That new cam HD is using in new 2014 and 15 is not the worst but not the best either.

With S&S 551 you probably did better across the whole range.
That's what you want not peak numbers. Peak numbers you don't ride at. Looks good talking to your buddy at the bar or where ever.

Just a t note:
The new HD bagger with good exhaust and tune and good weather make around 82/86HP 102/105 TQ.
 
#16 ·
I have a 2015 Rg with 14,000 miles on it and decided to put some mods on. I had my local indy (Qualified shop with a good Dyno Tuner) install S&S 551 cams, Arlen Ness big Sucker, S&S push rods, V&H Power Dual header, Rinehart 4" slip ons, and a Tuner.



The install went fine and the Dyno came in at a Max HP90 Max Torque 106. I really thought I would have gotten much more than that. It pulls ok, but with the stock HO engine with stock cams being much better than the older 103's. I do not see a lot of difference.



Anyone else think these numbers are low, or am I crazy. What else can I do without breaking the bank, already spent a bunch on what I have now.



Hoping for some input from the professional builders on this site.


NOT A PROFESSIONAL BUILDER!

Not sure what you paid, but the stage IV kit would've gotten you about 15-20 more hp and about the same tq for less than $2k (-labor), but like someone said before, how does it feel? The "HO" 103 is about a 10/10 improvement over the previous 103.


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#21 ·
This combination is a high reving combination the 259 cam isnt what I would want or consider in a bagger unless your willing to give up the low end and really like to run the higher end RPMs.

You may consider going with the S&S 570 cam in the 103, maybe pull the heads off an change the head gasket out and setting a bit tighter squish and get closer to 10 to 1 compression and let it go. This is a proven combination and when you have more dollars to throw at it or want more power have the heads massaged. When you go after low end you generally give up high end and as you move the curve to the right you give up a little on the left always trade offs.
 
#20 ·
Rinehart mufflers are not going to be a huge help in the tq department.. The 2.25 core is a bit large when used with a X style pipe. 1.75 for the basic cams or 2.0 ... You might give up a hp or two with the smaller baffler but the seat of the pants feel is outstanding..
 
#26 ·
Just do the fuel moto 107 build. You essentially did a stage 1 + cams. Numbers look about average.
 
#27 ·
98/107 etc is not a route I would go if it were mine. Your thrust points are at their thinnest points when you bore the cylinders to accomodate these sizes. The nominal gain for the cubic inches in my opinion is not worth the chances. While i am sure some vendors are doing it and "We do it all the time" doesnt mean there arent issues. There is no where to go if you have an issue and you risk thin liners, cracking, heat and blueing of the cylinders. Not worth the risks over the nominal gains. If your looking for more then go larger where you have room to rebore a cylinder vs. one shot wonders and possible issues at the critical points of the cylinder.
 
#29 · (Edited)
It does come in a little later than the one he has, but nothing like the 259e. It produces more hp than what he has, which is what he asked for and would like a little more torque. The beauty of it is when he has more money to spend he can then add another step to it which is headwork. With headwork most of these 570 103 builds are producing 108 hp and up to 115 torque that is usable in a bagger give or a take a little based on the pipe / who does the headwork. Sure beats a 3200 up RPM cam and losing the bottom end that he also wanted to improve upon. Its safe cam set at 10 to 1, keeps the build reliable, has usuable power, quiet on the valve train and produces results and has for a long time.

Its a go to cam for many builders and porters for just these reasons and is not limited to 1 build look at all the Hippo Builds, Sachs Builds and many of the other build & porters that use these sites.

You will notice a little later intake close, a lot more overlap, seems to fit what the guy was shooting for in the first place without breaking the bank and still get a 800+ pound motorcycle moving and not make it just a top end bike.
 

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#30 · (Edited)
First time we used the .570 in a 98", years ago, it rang a bell on Jim Kennedy's dyno, Matoon, Ill.
Good cam, not the ends to all means but a good cam.
Many cams out there.......all depends how they are used.....we are not locked onto just one, as our building skills encompass a wide path.
And if timing needs to be addressed, so be it........that is where that particular powerplant wants to run at, and heat is not an issue, only if the engine is set-up incorrectly, and/or tuned incorrectly.
Stock engine............stock timing.
Modified engine.....modified timing.
Anything shy of that is hogwash.
Scott
 
#31 · (Edited)
I would agree that you should have gotten more for your money but there just isn't much more with the build you have.

It's only been briefly mentioned, but those cams need a bit more compression to perform, don't they? Change the gaskets out for a .030 Cometic and enjoy the build you have. Seat of the pants is what counts. Dyno numbers are more for bragging rights.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I would agree that you should have gotten more for your money but there just isn't much more with the build you have.

It's only been briefly mentioned, but those cams need a bit more compression to perform, don't they? Change the gaskets out for a .030 Cometic and enjoy the build you have.

Seat of the pants is what counts. Dyno numbers are more for bragging rights.
Numbers are just that: numbers. My 2015 115/116 Stage IV could barley pull my wife's 2014 Stage I. 115/116 was all numbers on paper. My 113 build with a crazy dip is making 125/131 has been pulled by a V-Rod with a 150lbs rider. I've pulled a dyna with a 117 and a bagger with a 120R adding another skinny guy with very hurt feelings >:) That 115/116 motor never spooked me and my 113 with a about 3k miles still tightens the old spinkster. I won't even waste my time risking a ticket to smoke some cammed up noise maker.
 
#34 ·
disappointed

The S&S cam you have has the lowest lift . I had T Man 600 cam, Fulsac X pipe,with SuperTrapp slip ons, S.E. air cleaner ,adjustable push rods, TTs master tune the first time. The next winter I added T Man Pro heads,58mm throttle body, high flow injectors. This setup sends you down the road in a hurry. Its all about Torque that is what puts you back in the seat.
 
#37 ·
Sorry I have had the opposite experience with TMan cams. Noisey top end even with beehives and lost torque and hp in a direct can swap and tune. Lost considerable torque which was the whole point to the swap.


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