Head Upgrade ??? - Page 3 - Road Glide Forums
Engine Related Engine Builds and more for Road Glides

Sponsored by Drago's Bike Works

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 02:15 PM
Grey beard
 
mocotom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 967
Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand why you went with high comp. pistons if your riding preference is low and mid range rpm. High compression requires greater overlap cam timing in order to "bleed" cylinder pressures down at lower rpm so you can still run pump grade gas. Most of these type cams will come with high lift and increased valve noise. My question is why build a hotter running, noisier motor if your goal is more torque and longevity.


2005 RG 98cu in
mocotom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
Life Member
 
ironmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by mocotom View Post
Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand why you went with high comp. pistons if your riding preference is low and mid range rpm. High compression requires greater overlap cam timing in order to "bleed" cylinder pressures down at lower rpm so you can still run pump grade gas. Most of these type cams will come with high lift and increased valve noise. My question is why build a hotter running, noisier motor if your goal is more torque and longevity.
I am getting the top end freshen up anyways so that is when I said I would get heads for the bike and I decided to go with the high compression pistons on the advice of the builder. The builder is going with .10 over on the pistons and he is polishing the heads as well. All the parts are ordered at this time except the cams so at this time I am going to continue on with this build, I may be able to stick with my cast flat top pistons but that may depend if he bored the jugs the .10 over yet and the shape my piston are in. If I change anything I will have to wait until Tuesday because the shop is closed on Monday.

08 FLTR candy red sunglo, 103 Stage II, Woods TW-222 cams, V&H Dresser Duals with Monster Rounds, Thundermax tuner, Willy Shiny Wheels and Forks and a bunch of other stuff.
ironmark is offline  
post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 05:54 PM
prodrag1320
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
no offence to anyone,but if you told the builder what your wanting & he came up with this set up,ide be looking for another builder.depending on what compression your going with & having to stick with HD parts,the 211,251 or 257 are the only cams ide suggest with heads having valves that big,and youde be looking at a decent mid - high RPM build.my advice if your wanting to keep it a low RPM,torquey build is to use mildly ported heads with a 1.900 MAX intake & stock size ex,keep the higher compression and go with a set of WOODS 555 or 777 cams
post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 10:09 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, WA
Posts: 37
Same thing I eluded to in post #3
There are Street Ported heads then there are those that are called that and offer the meat and potatoes to get the job done, have bronze guides, airflow and don't break the bank. 1.9 intake valve is a natural. Cam most often used here these days is a TR555TQ for that build. All the low end of the SE255, ping potential diminished (added squish grooves), and still pulls strong to 5,800 an torque is still over 100 from 2200-5200.
Deweys is offline  
post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 10:56 AM
Life Member
 
OldNerdGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St. Peters, MO
Posts: 3,206
When I had my engine bored out to a 103, I described what I was looking for as follows;

Something to flatten the hills, shorten the passing lanes, and something to cruise the highways (2 and 4 lane, straight and twisty).

Here is what the builder did. Called Bob Woods at Tom Woods... (where is Tom if Bob does all the work?) and relayed the info. Bob recommended his TW-7H Cam for my riding. There was some hemming and hawing between this one and the 777, but being a Highway Cruiser, that came down on the side of the TW-7H, as per Bob (something about the 777 being more of a Bar Hopper?). What I ended up with was the Woods Cam and Lifters, 10.5 to 1 flat top cast pistons (nothing expensive, not even sure what brand they are), and an increase from 96 to 103 Cubic Inches. I already had the Stage 1 Intake, and I added Drago's Dragula to the mix. No head work was recommended. I asked about it, and was told it would add HP and TQ, but it was nothing that would substantially add to my riding.

That was over 15,000 miles ago. Been cruisin' happy ever since.
OldNerdGuy is offline  
post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 07:32 PM
Hangaround
 
Yellow09SERG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 118
A head you might want to look at if your staying with MOCO part and want to keep a good strong bottom end that will still carry out a little ways is the CNC stock head. They are using the 1.875 intake valve and as other have said it will sure save the low end. Couple guy around here are running them and are very happy and the dealer is still covering the bike on the extended warranty
Yellow09SERG is offline  
post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:08 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: mansfield oh
Posts: 38
heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deweys View Post
The stock heads and compression are well suited to the 103 with the SE255 cams and the cost to do the head work would really beg for more cam to realize any real results and that would be in the form of added HP and torque at higher rpms. If done properly the low end manors will remain robust.
IMO......255 cams are ill suited for anything over and above cleaned up stock heads. They make power by upping the compression with cam grind method (early intake close and very little valve overlap.) Worthwhile in their own right but not suited for real performance. Head work like you are talking about is only one part in a recipe for a engine build. Have you any experience with a 110 hp 120ft lb tq engine for instance? I think you will find after expending much time, cash and headache, if you do not have a clear idea of where you are heading, you could end up too close to where you are now to justify the cost. My 103" 255 build makes about 90 hp and over 105 tq. In order to really feel a decided difference you will need to go quite a bit larger in displacement to satisfy a need for "more". In a bagger, especially one that runs around two up and covers land with numerous elevation changes and fuel availabilities, one would be best to err on the side of conservative. However, if you ride what is technically a bagger but is in reality some thing that is made to dash about madly, well then, this changes everything. Spec the machine honestly for the task at hand, realizing that nothing covers everything. Oh yes..and while we are on the subject of 103" and 255's.......DO NOT let anyone tell you they don't need some sort of compression release. You will (as I have) rue the decision to omit them. FWIW.
stogieluvr60 is offline  
post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:57 PM
Grey beard
 
Fire-Medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South, FL
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by stogieluvr60 View Post
IMO......255 cams are ill suited for anything over and above cleaned up stock heads. They make power by upping the compression with cam grind method (early intake close and very little valve overlap.) Worthwhile in their own right but not suited for real performance. Head work like you are talking about is only one part in a recipe for a engine build. Have you any experience with a 110 hp 120ft lb tq engine for instance? I think you will find after expending much time, cash and headache, if you do not have a clear idea of where you are heading, you could end up too close to where you are now to justify the cost. My 103" 255 build makes about 90 hp and over 105 tq. In order to really feel a decided difference you will need to go quite a bit larger in displacement to satisfy a need for "more". In a bagger, especially one that runs around two up and covers land with numerous elevation changes and fuel availabilities, one would be best to err on the side of conservative. However, if you ride what is technically a bagger but is in reality some thing that is made to dash about madly, well then, this changes everything. Spec the machine honestly for the task at hand, realizing that nothing covers everything. Oh yes..and while we are on the subject of 103" and 255's.......DO NOT let anyone tell you they don't need some sort of compression release. You will (as I have) rue the decision to omit them. FWIW.
He ports heads for a living, I think he might have somewhat of a clue.....

http://deweysheads.com/HDBD_home.html

2013 RGU Ember Red Sunglo (Under Construction)
Fire-Medic is offline  
post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 05:57 AM
Engine Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Munnsville,N.Y.
Posts: 979
Send a message via AIM to Hillsidecycle.com
If in fact it were here, a good recipie would be a Wood 6, and a set of our Stage III Touring Heads(1.940" intakes/1.630" exhausts).
Smooth, cool-running combo.
It'll strike torque similar to the 255 "school-bus" cams, but will carry much farther into the rpm band.
Scott

"Over 25 plus years of Harley-Davidson engine building, and cylinder head work."
Complete machine shop
Complete cylinder head shop
Dyno tuning
Extended Warranty Center
MMI Certified Mechanics
Stocking Dealer for;
S&S Cycle
Axtell Sales
Wood Performance
Horse Power Inc.
Andrews Products
Rivera Engineering
Bandit Machine Works
"Land Speed Record Power"
www.hillsidecycle.com
5225 South Main St.
Munnsville, N.Y. 13409
315-495-6650 phone/fax
M-F 8-5, Sat 8-12 or by appt.
Hillsidecycle.com is offline  
post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 04:04 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 32
IronMark, i just went through this last week with my 2013 roadglide ultra. every shop it seemed wanted me to use the 255's. i wanted the 204's, so the shop i usually deal with worked with me on a recipe, and it worked out great for me. here's what we used, and the results.
factory c&c ported s.e. heads which also come bored for compression releases
204 cams with the good inner cam bearings
forged rocker support
hi lift rockers, i believe they're 1.7+ ratio
removed the casting flange in the throat of the stock throttle body
s.e. pro super tuner
stock cast pistons
adjustable pushrods
vance & hines pro pipe
torque on the dyno is 114.81
hp is 104
i'll be welding up the 1" hole in the baffle of the pro pipe they used for the sniffer during the tune. that should lose about 2 hp, but gain about 4+ ft lbs of torque.
what's interesting is the area under the curves of the tq and hp lines on the dyno sheet. the cams with the hi ratio rockers pull just about as strong as the 255's down low, but midrange is incredible, and the torque doesn't fall off drastically like 255's do at about 4k/4500 rpm's. they pull all the way through and beyond 5500. i believe the rockers really wake up the 204's
this recipe was exactly what i was after and i'm very happy with the build. there's more power everywhere, and fits my riding style perfectly.
whack the throttle just off idle, and it's exhillirating, pulls surprisingly strong throughout the rev range till i hit the rev limiter at 6200. i'm not a builder, but i know what results i want, and i hope this info helps.
emwolb is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Road Glide Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome