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  #21  
Old 01-01-2013, 06:22 AM
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There are alot of functions you can do with the Powervision. You can Log tune which tells how your MC is running (AFR, Timing etc ) You can AutoTune where it makes its own map. There are guages you can monitor such as Head Temp, MPG and so on. I'm in the process of mounting mine while I'm changing handlebars.

BTW QHog I never was wild about Yellow bikes till I saw yours it sure does look awesome.
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2013, 07:21 AM
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Thx for the explanation. Im not familiar w/PV. Seems like an awesome device. I just installed the T-Max auto tune. All of my setting are done via laptop. I'm new to this auto tune tech.


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  #23  
Old 01-01-2013, 07:22 AM
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Thx Smitty for the compliment. Just trying to make the best of a stock color.


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  #24  
Old 01-01-2013, 07:32 AM
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That's the one thing I can think of that I like about the PV over the TMax is that it basically has a built in screen. Its probably good that I don't have it, I can see myself riding and trying to change something at the same time.....duh.

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  #25  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire-Medic View Post
So I have had some questions from people in this forum and another via pm, and thought would share even though it's been posted before.

Here are the directions "I" used for doing my data logs with the auto tune basic (narrow band factory O2 sensors):

http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2...now-a-reality/

This really is as easy as it gets, having the power vision mounted and using this software is so easy and a lot of fun. You see the hits in real time, and basically the goal is to turn all the boxes red. I have a few roads around here where I live that are still lifeless enough to allow me both to haul ass and to lug the bike around some to get to the cells in the areas we don't usually ride in. While the PV is doing it's thing, you see a flashing white outline box which flashes on the cell that is being "hit". This is a HUGE help to the end user (at least i thought so) because it shows you were information is being gathered, and quite a few times I got to a cell that was not hit much and this allowed me to see where I needed some work and to hold the current speed/throttle position.

My last run had value changes of: 1% AVG and 12% MAX, there were quite a few areas I had not gotten to before the last run. My goal is to have the changes made across the board at less than 5%, and this should be good. I like being able to work at this when time and road conditions allow, and being able to come back to it later on. The bike is running so much better and smoother now, but I think I can tweak a few more areas still. So nice not to have to lug around a laptop, lol. The bike just pulls nicely across the RPM range in any given gear with no hesitation, and fuel mileage is great.

This has been a lot of fun and I know I'm not even scratching the surface yet. Looking forward to more fun with my PV as time allows.
What MPG are you now getting?
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  #26  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:44 PM
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What MPG are you now getting?

My last (2) tanks one was 44 MPG but was all two up at mostly cruising 65 with my wife with the occasional pass of a truck or slow car, and then the other tank I averaged 39.5 with a few data logging sessions of 20-30 minutes each and the rest my usual solo riding which consist of mashing through the gears and highway cruising of 80 MPH or so.
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire-Medic View Post
My last (2) tanks one was 44 MPG but was all two up at mostly cruising 65 with my wife with the occasional pass of a truck or slow car, and then the other tank I averaged 39.5 with a few data logging sessions of 20-30 minutes each and the rest my usual solo riding which consist of mashing through the gears and highway cruising of 80 MPH or so.
Thanks for the info F-M.

Another question, do you know what the ultimate object/goal of the PV Auto Tune? Is it to get the most Torque, HP, MPG, smoothness, etc., etc. out of the engine?
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2013, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Wood View Post
Thanks for the info F-M.

Another question, do you know what the ultimate object/goal of the PV Auto Tune? Is it to get the most Torque, HP, MPG, smoothness, etc., etc. out of the engine?
Please keep in mind I am no expert, and have just been relaying my experiences with the tuner. From my conversation with Jamie, and what I have read, the object of the AT is to get the bike as close to the "target AFR" from the base map as possible. Things like environment (weather, altitude, etc) will affect this as well as all bikes are just different even though they have the same parts. It is my understanding that the auto tune basic and pro go about this in different ways, and the pro route with the wide band sensor produces better results and a more complete tune. Further than that I would be talking out of my rear end, and if anything I just typed is wrong, hopefully someone will correct me. I am new to the ins and outs of tuning as far as VE tables, timing, Lambda, etc. I am reading non stop trying to learn because I plan to take full advantage of the PV and know "why" the PV is making the changes it is, etc. I made this commitment when I received the unit as part of my xmas gift from the Mrs. But I am still learning. I have learned how to let the PV do it's thing, and understand in a simple way why some things are happening, but I do not have (dont feel like it anyways) the full knowledge of tuning to give further in depth explanations. This thread I just started originally to see how guys with the IA mount were mounting their PV, and then that morphed into the AT with the unit, and now I will just try my best to answer questions, and continue to update as I learn, so we can all learn. I'm here to learn and share info, I'm not an expert at anything, but there are some things I have ;learned along the way in my 3 years so far with HD bikes, particularly with the last few I have owned.

Sorry for the long winded response.

I'm not a dyno tuner, and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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  #29  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Fire-Medic View Post
Please keep in mind I am no expert, and have just been relaying my experiences with the tuner. From my conversation with Jamie, and what I have read, the object of the AT is to get the bike as close to the "target AFR" from the base map as possible. Things like environment (weather, altitude, etc) will affect this as well as all bikes are just different even though they have the same parts. It is my understanding that the auto tune basic and pro go about this in different ways, and the pro route with the wide band sensor produces better results and a more complete tune. Further than that I would be talking out of my rear end, and if anything I just typed is wrong, hopefully someone will correct me. I am new to the ins and outs of tuning as far as VE tables, timing, Lambda, etc. I am reading non stop trying to learn because I plan to take full advantage of the PV and know "why" the PV is making the changes it is, etc. I made this commitment when I received the unit as part of my xmas gift from the Mrs. But I am still learning. I have learned how to let the PV do it's thing, and understand in a simple way why some things are happening, but I do not have (dont feel like it anyways) the full knowledge of tuning to give further in depth explanations. This thread I just started originally to see how guys with the IA mount were mounting their PV, and then that morphed into the AT with the unit, and now I will just try my best to answer questions, and continue to update as I learn, so we can all learn. I'm here to learn and share info, I'm not an expert at anything, but there are some things I have ;learned along the way in my 3 years so far with HD bikes, particularly with the last few I have owned.

Sorry for the long winded response.

I'm not a dyno tuner, and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

ROFLOL

Good stuff, great answer and I understand that you are not an expert on PVs. But do you happen to know what the "Target AFR" is on your bike and if the "Target AFR" can be changed?
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:51 PM
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Maybe this will help, it's a copy paste of info from the Fuel Moto website, which is also on the dynojet website:

What is Autotune, a product or a process? At Dynojet we throw around the term Autotune quite frequently, so let us do our best at explaining what it is, and what it does. This product overview is intended to cover the basics, and is by no means a comprehensive guide to EFI tuning, systems, or best practices.

A little EFI 101 may be beneficial to lay the ground work and better your understanding of all that’s going on in this sometimes confusing world of EFI tuning.

In the world of electronic engine management / EFI, most modern systems employ closed loop feedback for fuel control. These systems are often based around narrowband O2 sensors that provide feedback to the ECM in regards to how rich or lean the vehicle is running. The ECM uses it’s calibration (tune) to determine if it should maintain closed loop fuel control, and also references a target Air-to-Fuel Ratio (herein AFR) value during certain conditions (load vs. rpm). If there’s error between what the ECM is asking for and what the OEM narrowband sensor measures, then a correction is made to adjust the lean or rich condition.

This sounds great, and it is, but here’s the kicker……..narrowband sensors are ONLY accurate at, or near, the stoichiometric value of the fuel being used, which is 14.7:1 for gasoline. This value is where complete combustion would occur, if it could occur, and is where you would achieve the best fuel efficiency. This value, however, is NOT ideal for all operating conditions of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, or any engine for that matter. Achieving a balance of fuel economy and best power / torque is the goal, and we’ve developed some handy tools to take the mystery out of tuning a fuel injected H-D motorcycle.

In the world of electronic engine management / EFI, most modern systems employ closed loop feedback for fuel control. These systems are often based around narrowband O2 sensors that provide feedback to the ECM in regards to how rich or lean the vehicle is running. The ECM uses it’s calibration (tune) to determine if it should maintain closed loop fuel control, and also references a target Air-to-Fuel Ratio (herein AFR) value during certain conditions (load vs. rpm). If there’s error between what the ECM is asking for and what the OEM narrowband sensor measures, then a correction is made to adjust the lean or rich condition.

This sounds great, and it is, but here’s the kicker……..narrowband sensors are ONLY accurate at, or near, the stoichiometric value of the fuel being used, which is 14.7:1 for gasoline. This value is where complete combustion would occur, if it could occur, and is where you would achieve the best fuel efficiency. This value, however, is NOT ideal for all operating conditions of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, or any engine for that matter. Achieving a balance of fuel economy and best power / torque is the goal, and we’ve developed some handy tools to take the mystery out of tuning a fuel injected H-D motorcycle.

A typical Harley-Davidson ECM calibrat ion has areas of closed loop and open loop. In other words, there are areas where it can “see” the AFR and other areas where it can not. When you’re in a range that requires precise measurement, but is outside the reliable window of a narrowband sensors operation (considered 14.3 -15.2 AFR), then a tuner / EFI specialist must rely on wideband O2 sensor data. Since the ECM does not typically use or support wideband O2 sensors, a tuner must monitor / log the AFR values generated from a wideband O2 controller (like Dynojets’ Autotune wideband O2 sensor control module). The wideband O2 sensor values provide tuners or electronic tuning devices with data with which to make decisions on how they’ll address fueling in the open loop regions of the tune (those regions where the ECM has no idea what the AFR really is). In either case, if the target AFR from the calibration is NOT achieved, the error must fixed by measurements acquired from the stock O2 sensors or aftermarket wideband sensors. In the case of a Harley engine management system, we fix the error by adjusting the VE (volumetric efficiency tables).

Question: What does Dynojet offer to help me tune my bike?
Answer: Autotune.

As it pertains to the Power Vision, Autotune is both a product and a process. There are two different versions that you can use while tuning a bike:

Autotune Basic - Free and requires no additional parts for bikes that have OEM closed loop fuel control and O2 sensors
Autotune Pro– Not free and requires the use of our Autotune wideband O2 control module that has dual wideband O2 sensors


The Power Vision can provide meaningful tuning feedback from EITHER the OEM narrowband O2 sensors AND / OR from the Autotune module’s wideband O2 sensors……we call this Autotune Basic or Pro respectively.

So, with Autotune Basic and without any additional modules (it’s simply a process) you could use the Power Vision to take advantage of what the ECM “sees” from its OEM narrowband O2 sensors and help it achieve the target AFR. Not only can it fix the normal closed loop range, but the Autotune Basic will actually temporarily extend the closed loop range to gain insight on the actual AFR in areas where it’s normally not allowed (high load / high rpm). For the record >> At high load, high RPM ranges this “temporary situation” is not ideal, and this is where it’s advantageous to use Autotune Pro. We offer Autotune Basic because essentially it’s free for the user, and it’s offered by the competition (V-Tune / Smart Tune ) as a band-aid approach to professional tuning. This method works great in those areas where it makes sense to run in a lean state: idle, light load, and cruise conditions. So, in any case, now the Power Vision can “see” what the ECM is commanding for AFR AND it can see what the actual AFR is in the exhaust. Armed with this information and other data from the H-D OEM databus, the Power Vision can automatically fix the deviation between the target AFR and actual AFR by adjusting the VE tables. The data is learned in real time, but processing the data and adjusting the tune is done in an “offline state” (key on / engine off). In the end, the Power Vision can process the data, correct the tune, and then reflash the corrected tune into the ECM.

If you want to tune like a pro and get serious about developing a safe, efficient, and powerful tune, then you need Autotune Pro. I’ll start by making this statement, “Any aftermarket EFI tuning system that does NOT use wideband O2 sensors inherently can NOT give you real time, valuable insight as to how rich or lean the bike is running in areas outside of the OEM closed loop range.” Autotune Pro is a process AND requires a product; that being the Autotune wideband control module. The Autotune module uses wideband O2 sensors in order to measure the actual AFR in the exhaust, and these sensors can accurately sample AFR values from 10.0:1 to 18.0:1 (remember, narrowband O2 sensors are only accurate from 14.3 – 15.2 AFR). When the Autotune module wideband O2 sensors are installed in the exhaust and you’ve selected Autotune Pro in the Power Vision, you’re on your way to a complete, refined, and powerful tune. The Power Vision, when running in Autotune Pro mode, will actually temporarily set up your tune just like a professional tuner and datalog all required channels WITHOUT using a computer. Just like Autotune Basic, the entire process is attempting to correct the error from what’s commanded in the ECM defined as the target AFR, and the AFR that’s actually measured in the exhaust. Armed with this information and other data from the H-D OEM databus, the Power Vision can fix the deviation between the target AFR and actual AFR by adjusting the VE tables. The data is learned in real time, but processing the data and adjusting the tune is done in an “offline state” (key on / engine off).

Neither Autotune Basic nor Autotune Pro require that you interface with a computer when using this feature. Power Vision sets up the tune, monitors and logs the data, and then corrects the tune to ensure what you ask for (in the AFR table) is what you get. You essentially have a full time professional tuner inside your Power Vision with the Autotune feature.

So, how do you know if your bike can be fitted with an Autotune wideband O2 controller and the included 18mm wideband O2 sensors that are required for the Autotune Pro feature?

On bikes that didn’t have factory closed loop fuel control / O2 sensors, you are left no choice but to weld 18mm O2 bungs into your exhaust OR buy an aftermarket exhaust system that had 18mm O2 bungs
On bikes that had factory closed loop fuel control / 18mm narrowband O2 sensors, you can simply remove them and install the 18mm wideband O2 sensors. This requires that you temporarily (or permanently) disable closed loop……..or…..if you wanted to retain the OEM narrowband O2 sensors / closed loop fuel control AND install the wideband O2 sensors then they’d have to weld in bungs to their exhaust to accommodate the wideband O2 sensors.
If the bike has factory 12mm O2 sensors, and the guy wants to retain his stock exhaust, then there is no choice but to have 18mm O2 bungs welded into the exhaust.
On bikes with OEM 12mm narrowband O2 sensors, you could remove them and opt for an aftermarket exhaust that had 18mm O2 sensor bungs. This will require that you disable closed loop. If you wanted to retain the OEM narrowband 12mm O2 sensors / closed loop fuel control AND install the wideband 18mm O2 sensors, then you should look for aftermarket pipes that retain the factory 12mm O2 sensors AND had provisions for the wideband 18mm O2 sensors.
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