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Water Pump obsolescence

28K views 66 replies 22 participants last post by  Rob-B 
#1 · (Edited)
If your bike is liquid cooled, be aware you might face availability problems on your trips

The unfamous and unreliable Coolant Pump 26600012 is marked as “obsolete” in the HD parts database, the availability at dealership is very scarse and no alternatives are available at this moment on the market.

Despite it looks like many automotive liquid pumps like the Bosch ones, in reality it is “built to fit” only HD, so no commercial replacement is available at this time.

In preparation for my summer road trip i asked yesterday my friend to buy one in the Philly area, the dealer had one, THE LAST, and told my friend he was lucky because there are few available around and no immediate alternative from HD is foreseen at this moment. The pump cost was 459$

The risk is that if it fail on a road trip and no pumps are around your area to face the following choices:
  1. being stranded for days waiting for a spare to arrive
  2. Stop the trip and tow the bike home
  3. Rent a car or bike to carry on the trip and recover the bike later on
  4. Continuing riding with no pump risking of damaging the heads (water cool down mostly the exhaust valves)

Any of them is an expensive option......

In light of the fact that the pump soon or later will fail, I decided to invest in peace of mind and I will take this spare pump in the bag just in case. It is possible that my’19 will present a different pump that could be retrofitted in the old models, but it is just my assumption. In the meanwhile, the riding season is now, I’m going to North Cape - Norway and I do not want to remain stranded up there for an obsolete part.

Just to bring the thing to your attention for the proper considerations if you are planning a big summer trip
 
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#2 ·
I don’t know much about the wet head but it is still just an air cooled engine, no? The wet head just allows you to continue to make the same power on a really hot day that you would on a cooler day by keeping the head cool. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see any reason, without ever seeing how this works mind you, that you couldn’t pinch those hoses off and continue on your trip without the head cooling system.
 
#5 ·
It makes sense and it’s what I thought too. The reality is, no can do. My pump went out sooner than later. Called and was told “sure, ride it on in, no problem”, so I did. Speaking to the service manager, was told I could have caused damage. Unlike the air cooled engines, apparently there are passages in the wet head that are very thin and can be damaged if ridden too far with a faulty pump. Been a year and no problems, but if it goes out again, won’t chance it. IIRC, they had a bad source for pumps, and rectified the problem. I see it as a matter of when, not a matter of if it goes out again. Water pumps go out, and the same thing could happen (and has) while driving my car. I don’t see supply as a problem. There are other things that can crap out on these bikes that could leave you stranded and the dealer might have to wait for. I don’t worry about it.
 
#3 ·
In my knowledge, the liquid cooled have an higher compression rate, so the main purpose of refrigerating the heads is to maintain a regular combustion and to cool down the exhaust valves.
Surely riding without it is possible (I listed in the options list) because of the mixed air/liquid cooling, but I’m not sure if doing it for something more than reaching the closest dealer is a smart thing to do in terms of endurance.
If something is in there, it is because it has a job that needs to be done.

My point here is only to advise that this part is in shortage, then is up to anybody to take this into account or not independently from my personal choice.
 
#4 ·
I have been hearing about people putting the M8 style pumps on older scooters. It involves swapping out for the M8 regulator mount and cooling tubes as well as the pump hoses and a new cover. I'll bet there is a package from the MoCo to just that. For some reason these upgrade kits never make it into the parts look up system.

Past that, they have to supply pumps. They have a legal requirement, 7 years IIRC. But that doesn't mean that there couldn't be some hiccups with availability.
 
#9 ·
The wet head came to market in 2014. So you are saying that if you have a 2014 Wet head and the coolant pump goes out you are out a 2014 bike. Just park it no options. Do you expect many to really believe that. Some will do anything to post their anit Harley rants. Their is no 2014 Harley parked for the scrap pile because a pump was discontinued.

26600012 - COOLANT PUMP Harley-Davidson® Parts and Accessories

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

The list goes on and on.
 
#10 · (Edited)
The fact that you can order does not necessary imply that they can deliver on the spot.....

By definition obsolescence is “an event leading to diminish the possibility to procure/using an item” and also my area of responsibility in my actual job.....

If the pump is declared obsolete, I assume HD made a LTB (Last Time Buy) in order to guarantee a limited supply for both production and support while they are defining a solution (new 3F (Form Fit & Function) vendor or redesign). In the support case normally a limited number of spares is made available for pre-determined geographical areas (if they’re smart by setting the numbers in accordance with the removal statistics) while a core is maintained in a central deposit to fill the gap when needed in the troubled areas.

What does it mean to the Customers. It means that if you are lucky your local dealer has the pump on hand and case solved. If he has not, then you have to hope it is available in the area of interest and it will take a few days. In case the local area is short then the reference become the central deposit, and then the spare will probably take weeks according to the efficiency of the chain.

Let’s take my case: my friend was defined “lucky” by the parts manager because he got the last part he had in stock otherwise the waiting could have been long.

This means that if you have a pump failure THIS MORNING and THAT is the closest dealership from where you are, the answers you will get will be “sorry, we have to order the spare” and “deliver will depend by availability and shipping time”.

At that point obsolescence will have impacted you. It is not a rant, it is simply the way obsolescence work.

How to resolve: first of all, obsolescence is never resolved, it is managed. The management can be left at vendor level, HD in this case, so you rely on them to provide the part when needed in accordance to their timing, or as a User you can take your precautionary measures to cover your operational needs (as I did)

Again, pumps are there for you ,but very probably in limited availability. It is not the end of the world but the information is there so you can manage it in the way you prefer.

And again, the fact that you can order does not imply that it can be immediately delivered, this is what the backorder are for.....

Last, I can also be wrong and having overreacted due to my experience. You can still place some calls to your area dealers and check the COOLANT PUMP 26600012 availability. I’ll be happy to be demonstrated as wrong, more piece of mind for me because bike is still under warranty so I’ll keep my spare for the future and in the meanwhile I’ll will have the installed pump eventually replaced for free if it fails

See also a backorder example in Europe: https://estore.manchester-harley-davidson.co.uk/buy-coolant-pump-26600012-p66268.html
 
#13 ·
Following now. 60* morning and on the way to work this morning the engine and temp lights came on. Data on the powervision tuner show high engine temps but low coolant temp.

2016 RGU, 14,900 miles. 6 months out of warranty.

Can’t attach picture with the current forum troubles, but it shows 266* engine temp and 59* coolant temp.
 
#14 ·
Following now. 60* morning and on the way to work this morning the engine and temp lights came on. Data on the powervision tuner show high engine temps but low coolant temp.



2016 RGU, 14,900 miles. 6 months out of warranty.



Can’t attach picture with the current forum troubles, but it shows 266* engine temp and 59* coolant temp.


It must be the pump not working i think[emoji15]


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
 
#20 ·
Update:
Well I may have fixed the pump tonight :surprise::grin:

I determined the pump was indeed NOT running after taking the front protective cover off (the bike that is) and forcing the fans and pump on by rolling on the throttle. Verified 12 volts at the pump connector next so I removed the pump to inspect. After finally getting the rear cover open (more on that later in a detailed post) , I found a open connection that was spot welded/resistance welded and probably vibrated apart. after soldering it back together I tested it on the bike and the pump ran! I am going to resolder all similar the connections (about 4 others), then do finally assembly, fill/purge the system, and give it a good test ride before I call it "fixed", but I think I'm there.

I will do a good detailed thread on opening the motor and other key points later, I have pictures too.
 
#21 ·
I knew those 3 little screws weren't going to keep you down!


Thanks for the update. Perhaps this is the cause for the ever so common failure?


Looks like from the pics you shared with me earlier tonight, the capacitor is a 220mF, but the voltage is unknown. (Did some research on YouTube and saw a video where the cap was obviously bad. Video was in Spanish I think?) I would think a voltage rating of at least 15-20 volts would be adequate, but you could go much larger on that rating, just never go less than what was there or the known operating voltage. Preferably give yourself a cushion zone, so at least 20 volts would be great if you were to replace it. The mF is the critical number in a cap rating.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I’m very interested in, for sure when the time to replace mine with the spare will come, I will try a repair of the old one as well.
The intention is to have always a spare on hand if possible

Anyhow..... it seems the famous slogan is still valid: Harley Davidson: turning riders into wrenchers since 1903 and I have to admit that I like to wrench my bikes as much as I like to ride them
 
#28 ·
It’s hard to do a detailed post with picture descriptions in TT on my phone...at least for me anyway :wink:

I created a google online album last night but was having trouble linking to them...then we went out to dinner...
 
#31 ·
Well maybe you can...but for me it was a 60* morning and I saw engine temps approaching 270* on the Power Vision display, see my first picture in the first post. I had the vents in the lowers ope too...I can't imagine what the head temps would be if it was 90* out.

What is a safe temp?
 
#35 ·
Not sure what to say...I see that in my manual too, but it doesn't really say that is the trigger temp. I can positively say that my light came on at 230ish, I watch it several times while nursing the machine back home. I looked in the manual and could not find a different mention of this...or at what point the light is supposed to come on.

Go unplug your pump and take a ride to see for yourself :grin:
(just kidding)
 
#36 ·
Could it be your combination of low coolant and high engine temps, maybe that combination sets off the check engine light and the temp. light? Just a guess on my part
 
#40 ·
My pump failed at a bit over 15K miles while halfway across the country in Colorado. Dealer told me I could ride it home as long as I kept the bike moving and didn't sit in hot traffic. She pinged more than usual but otherwise ran fine. I recently replaced it myself, so far so good.

The dealer explained to me that in the case of pump failure the computer lights up the engine overheat indicator as a warning for low to no coolant flow, it doesn't necessarily mean the engine is actually overheating. This is why both the CE and OH lights come on simultaneously, even if the bike isn't any hotter than normal.

These pumps are junk. Just the other day I saw another RGU up at my local dealer waiting for a new pump, but they are having trouble getting them in stock. Like noted in this thread, the pump has been obsoleted, and there currently isn't a replacement P/N available.

Could get real ugly if they don't come out with a new pump very soon, because these things do not last.
 
#42 · (Edited)
#43 · (Edited)
I'm confused. What year is your bike? I searched Ronnies parts finder under 2017 FLTRU, there was no part number 26600012.

So I searched on "Pump", and it came up with part number 26600048: "Pump, Coolant". Here's the link, what am I missing here?
The M8, like yours, have a different coolant pump, it is a variable speed one and controlled by the ECU. This is the reason why it has a different part number from the TC ones

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche...idson Street Bike FLTRU ROAD GLIDE ULTRA (KGL)

Edit: Initially I was thinking they were the same, but within the discussion here we discovered it is a different one (page 2)
 
#48 · (Edited)
I took one as a spare on my north Europe trip “just in case”. Everything went and it is good to have a peace of mind” in the saddlebag when traveling.
There is no need to replace the old pump until it fails, it seems also that HD recovered the obsolescence because in their logistic database it is not anymore marked as such.
Last time I checked, in Europe 260 pumps are available but they are all sitting in a unique location in Belgium, meaning that in case you need one you have to wait at least 3 to 5 days to have it. Having one in the saddlebag is a good insurance policy for your road trips here......
 
#49 · (Edited)
So are the new pumps better than the one that came in my 17 RGU? My fans never shut off and the over flow dumped the tank in the Harley lot today, 6 days past warranty. I live in Texas so it does get a bit warm.

I have a stage 3 since new, was the first one they installed at this dealer. on the new M8

Is there an upgrade and should I get one?
 
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