Per various posts and first hand knowledge Harley's brand new M8 engine design does burn oil.
Apparently, Harley has issued a Technical Bulletin (TB) that allows the M8 engine to burn one quart within 1,500 miles; this amount of engine oil burn is considered to be OK.
Question: Does Indian allow their 108 cu. in. engine to burn oil like the Harley's?
The # of MOCO's TB is unknown, if someone has the TB # please post.
Sell that POS Harley and get an Indian. I hear they actually produce oil as you ride them so you can drain some off and save it for later. Way better deal.
Ok..... I hate to jump into this as it's been discussed on several other oil threads. If you go talk to about any other auto manufacturer they will tell you the same thing. Even BMW motorcycle will tell you that amount can be considered normal. This does not mean that the manufacturer is saying that all M8' use this much oil. In fact, most don't even come close to that. Move on to another topic if you are trying to justify buying the Indian.
Hell, BMW cars! I have a 2013 535, every now and then I need to add a quart. I asked about it at the dealer, they gave me a sheet explaining it. Seemed like all the service writes had copies in their top drawers.
Not sure why oil consumption is so much greater with M8s compared to Twin Cams. I’ve had 4 Twin Cams and never burned oil close to that. However if a quart every 1500 miles is considered normal, I could probably deal with that. But one guy posted that during a 2600 mile trip he had to add 4 quarts. That can’t be normal! Would that be a sumping problem?
Most likely was sumping. That is becoming old news now though as there have been various fixes and it just doesn't show up anymore and it wasn't nearly as prevalent as the internet and some aftermarket shops led people to believe. Granted it should have never been an issue but even BMW is going through a pretty big recall with a trans issues on the K1600's. It happens.....
I have to agree here, burning a full quart of oil in 1500 miles seem a bit much unless you have the M8 transfer issue.
I had and have both versions of the EVO engine, changed fluids per the manual specs, both engines are stock.
No reason for a engine to "burn" oil, it's there to lube and protect.
Neither one of my 19s use any oil in between oil changes. My 16 didnt use oil. My 84 Shovel didnt use oil. My 48 Pan used oil. (Indian was still in business when that bike was built) and a few of my other Shovels did. Who cares what the Indian does?
No mechanical reason for an M8 to burn more oil than a twin cam. Its basically the same ring package with similar clearances. Perhaps I should say published clearances. But oil consumption would be a symptom of sumping. It might also be a symptem of a leaking gasket on a piston jet. Spraying the cylinder wall as opposed to the underside of the piston.
With that said, the M8 breather valve is a real piece of work. And the MoCo knew it. The M8 air box is built so that it holds the carry over oil in the throttle body throat as opposed to letting it drip all over the side of the scooter. I have no idea as to how much oil the bad ones are passing, but have seen several that had filled that low area and were beginning to back up into the plastic throttle body.
Some breathers have been found with cut orings and some have been found improperly installed. But I doubt that was the whole issue, despite what the MoCo has to say about it. Now the problem is that changing that little piece of plastic crap involves the EPA,CARB, and the EU. So I doubt it happens unless the oil use becomes more of an issue that it is now.
I watched a couple of video's on oil consumption where this guy's M8 was using oil and he decided to do a big bore kit and cams to fix the using oil problem and make his bike faster. The mechanics at the HD shop said the reason M8's use oil was due to the oil ring, swiper ring, i think he called it, was to thin. The oil ring in the big bore kit was much thicker, no doubt. At least that was the reasons that shop came up with. Also they said that they have found on several M8 bikes that the parts that squirt oil under the pistons were loose and had to be re-torqed before they buttoned everything up. Just passing on some info i heard from a well established HD shop that i subscribe to on U tube.
If you have an M8 that uses oil, the first thing you should do is check behind the air filter.
Pull the filter off and check right at the opening of the throttle bore. There is a recess there that tends to catch oil that has passed through the breather system. I've checked about a dozen now, and half were dry. The other half varied from being damp to having a spoon full of oil in the recess.
If you scooter is using oil and its wet in the recess, it needs to be checked for sumping. If its not sumping then it could be an issue with the breather in the head or a ring issue (crankcase pressure)
You can also use a bore scope to read the top of the pistons. Reading pistons is part experience and part voodoo, but basically a piston that is carboned up in the center and clean around the edges has bad oil ring seal.
In the photo the left piston shows classic oil control ring issues. And because its just on one side of the piston, the jug would be suspect. And on examination the jug was out of round. And this one was smoking under a hard load. Most will not read this easy, the clear margin will be much narrower.
Now if you have one that sucks oil through the throttle bore, the quick fix is to vent it to the atmosphere. Doing so will not earn you any suckup points with the EPA, but it will cure the issue and costs less than $20 to do.
Oil consumption and high performance motors.
We use larger clearances in higher performance applications to lower friction (heat production and wear) .
A two cylinder motor gets no slack for a lazy cylinder. That V8 truck motor can hide one for a while, but the V twin needs both hitting hard.
Two areas that larger clearances cause oil consumption are valve guides - notably intakes - that always open / close with a vacuum condition sucking oil down the valve stem.
Piston rings allow blow by under load and suck oil mist out of the crankcase when engine braking or revving down.
You can tighten up clearances all day long - and you're not going to like the result. Burned valves. Closed ring gaps on a hot day at high load scoring a cylinder wall.
My 2017 early production M8 was laid to rest 11-21-2020. It had 44,400 miles on it when turned over to insurance company. It never transfered, it never sumpped. never used oil. The compensator never blew up. I did have 3 oil pressure senors replaced under warranty, one radio screen protector. I was not knid to that bike I made it tug a twin sidecar most of it's life.
Per various posts and first hand knowledge Harley's brand new M8 engine design does burn oil.
Apparently, Harley has issued a Technical Bulletin (TB) that allows the M8 engine to burn one quart within 1,500 miles; this amount of engine oil burn is considered to be OK.
Question: Does Indian allow their 108 cu. in. engine to burn oil like the Harley's?
The # of MOCO's TB is unknown, if someone has the TB # please post.
I understand what an engineer says. But, I have had way too many engines over the years ( Honda small engine, Briggs small engine, Toyota and Honda vehicles with 250 and 300K, bmw motorcycles and my current Harley) that from my best evaluation use none to very little oil. Never seem to see a change in the oil level between oil changes. So, I know it is possible to produce such a machine. I would be totally whizzed if I paid 30k for a motorcycle I was adding a quart to ever 1500 miles. Many people on this site would need a few or 3 quarts for trips they make.
You do realize that the BMW K1600 says that is the allowable amount of usage as well don't you? Also many car manufacturers have similar tolarances for usage. I bet if you researched those others motorcycles you would find that they too have seemingly high oil usage tollerances. It seems maybe many on here are getting bent around the axel over something that is just a tolerance and not a problem over most motorcycles. It's likely a tolerance level that is set so that they are sure there is a real consumpyion issue before they spend money inspecting it. With all that said.... I don't believe most engines should be USING a quart within 1,500 miles and if I would be checking that out on my own to see where the issue may be i.e. valve guides, piston blow-by, just crank case breather blow-by or whatever. That's just my opinion so many may want to argue so they are free to their opinions too.
SMH; sidetracked/hijacked/old thread. The OP was asking about M8 engines and the technical bulletin supposedly addressing oil consumption on said engine (vs. an Indian engine). Did anyone actually answer the question? Sumping, tolerances, TwinCam technical bulletins, how much other folks had issues with oil consumption, etc. Whatever; not sure why this post raised from the dead when it was never really answered.
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