Harley Dealers are so Full Of IT!!!!! - Road Glide Forums
ECM/Fuel Management systems ECM/Fuel Management systems For Road Glides

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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Harley Dealers are so Full Of IT!!!!!

I have called the 6 closest Harley Dealers in my area and have just about gotten 6 different answers. I am running a '13 Road Glide Ultra and have the stage 1 air cleaner kit and RC components slip ons. All were installed when I bought the bike new along with a re flash on the computer. I will be installing a 2 into 1 VH Propipe this week and have called and asked if I needed another reflash. I have gotten answers back ranging from....
-The flash that is in it now will work fine
-Harley only offers one flash that covers free flowing AC kit and stock pipe and mufflers
-Needs another reflash
and of course they all want to sell a race tuner.
A friend has the same exhaust along with 255 cams and stage 1 AC kit and the dealer only reflashed the computer and did NOT install a SERT. So does anyone on here have a truthful answer?? Can I run the flash that is in my bike for the stage 1 kit or does it need a reflash? Not ready to do cams yet so don't want to buy a tuner till I am ready to go into the motor.
Thanks for the input
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:16 PM
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I would call Frank at Dragos bike works 815-765-1790
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:25 PM
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If you only install slip on muffs, no ECM flash required. If you install a free flow intake and free flow muffs you need an ECM flash. If you are getting cams, get a flash. You could also install a tuner for all of the above instead of an ECM flash. That would give you the freedom to tune the fuel/air mixture for any combination of exhaust, intake or cams.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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I already have the flash for the air cleaner and mufflers now. The problem is I can't get a straight answer from Harley if I change to a 2 into 1 if that's enough for a reflash or not.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:36 PM
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if you are still running stock headers with cats in em, there isnt much point of getting an air cleaner. The big gain comes from replacing the catted headers and adding a high flow intake then getting a tune to take advantage of the new flowing parts. Slip ons are really just to add some growl to your bike, no real performance gain.

Can you run with the stage 1 flash you had done already with a new free flowing 2 into 1 pipe and a/c?

Yes.

Will it run optimal?

No.

Will it pop on decel?

Probably.

Will you leave power on the table using a pre built map instead of a custom dyno tune?

Yes.

What are you goals? If you are adding a 2into1 I would think performance is important. Being a brand new bike I imagine longevity is important. If those two are true I would recommend the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner and a dyno tune.

The "dealer flash" is "safe for 50 states", which means its a de-tuned flash that is generally safe and has small performance increases for all pipe/intake combinations. So if you want to just get by that will work. However where I am in Denver, 5k feet elevation, we have a lot less oxygen than sea level guys so it makes sense that we will need different maps flashed. I couldnt be happier with my dyno tune. All pipes and intakes flow a lil different, heck even the same model bikes same mods will perform a lil different on a dyno so its best to get a custom tune. You spend 25k on a bike whats 500 bucks on a tuner/dyno tune to make it run optimally?

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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I plan on purchasing a Thundermax when I do my cams, headwork, and High Comp pistons and will be getting dyno'd at that time. I am just trying to avoid $300-500 worth of dyno work now to turn around and pay that again within the next 6 months-year.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:48 PM
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It depends on what you expect out of the bike and what is already on it. Will it run better with a Race Tuner and a Dyno tune? Absolutely. Is it necessary? Not really.

The stage 1 flash is what it is. It is still epa compliant thus it is canned map that harley uses. Does the bike run good with a stage 1 flash? Not in my opinion. I assume if you are going to a 2 into 1 pipe you want more power?

If so then talk to Frank and talk to Fuel Moto as they provide a lot of good tuner solutions as well. If you are happy with the way the bike performs right now just leave it as is.

I did a lot of motor work and had a Dyno tune on my fatboy and the bike was night and day after the Dyno tune. My RG has a Power Commander 5 with air cleaner and pipes and i bought it this way. It runs fine for what I use it fopr but if I were to do a build with cams, heads, and pistons and cylinders I'd get a Dyno tune done so I get the most out of my investment.

This is the kind of question that you expect different answers for different people as their opinions all vary. It's kind of like asking someone what their favorite color is. You might get the same answer two or three times but not everyone likes the same color.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 02:58 PM
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So if you have the stage 1 thats all you need.. If you want then buy the tmax and let it autotune and be done.. Dont worry about the dyno till you get the other work down.. Either way you are good
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 06:04 PM
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The main difference in what you have now and what you are going to do is the new de-catted head pipes. The new head pipes will increase exhaust flow and make the bike run a bit cooler (with the right tune).
Since you have the stage 1 flashed into the ECM ride the bike and see how it reacts with the new exhaust. If the bike has popping on decel and runs hotter than normal then a reflash or a tuner will be in your future.
If you are looking to get the T-Max call Frank at Dragos he has the best prices.


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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-20-2014, 06:33 PM
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Your partial stage 1 download was built based on a catted head pipe. now you're taking the cats out of the equation which will cause the bike to run lean with a free flowing exhaust. HD isn't going to have anything you can really use in "download" form which is why they want to sell you a SERT. I personally would go that route just because more air means a leaner condition unless fuel map is changed as well. Is it required, probably not, but you're only looking at problems if you don't map it properly. IMO the HD stage 1 download is a huge waste of money and $85-100 that could easily have been put towards a changeable tuner of sorts. Good luck.


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