2010 FLTRX w/stage 1 (stock headers) - is a "tuner" really needed? - Road Glide Forums
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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2010 FLTRX w/stage 1 (stock headers) - is a "tuner" really needed?

If I already have SEAC, SE slip-on (SuperTrapp), plus the canned HD "Stage 1 map", then MUST I also add a tuner (SERT, PCV, etc.) when I upgrade 2-1 headpipe(s) to something like V&H or Fulemoto?

1) No, not really?

2) Good idea?

3) Absolutely! No way around it.

I would expect it to be a "Good Idea" but am most interested in the "No, not really" versus "Absolutely" responses and the related reasons.

Thanks,
Steve

ETA - I should probably explain WHY I'm asking:

I (like most others who just bought a new scoot) am crimped for $ and honestly DO plan to add SERT (or PCV, whatever) later. Right now though, I really do want to eliminate that 2010 stove... er... I mean the CAT converter. That's the cause for urgency and some sort of temporary half-way (quick) fix.

Bring 'em home or send us back!!

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 09:57 AM
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I don't have the true technical answer, but I have a similar set up. I am running the SE nightstick, with no download, or tuner, and mine runs fine for now. I solved a lot of the heat problem with mine by removing the lowers, and adding the mid-frame heat deflectors. That helped a lot until I can get the aftermarket vents installed in my lowers. I live in Western Washington, so the weather kinda heat isn't as bad as other areas. This fall I am going to replace the the SE with the V and H 2-1 pro pipe and I will do the tuner and download then.




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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 10:59 AM
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You're right in the grey area on tbis issue. Ride it as you have it set up now for a month or so, then consider a dynotune by an indy. You will certainly see a difference in the performance by the seat of the pants evaluation. Avoid a dealer dynotune. For some reason they just don't get as much outa the bike and they typically charge ya by the hour. Indys typically charge a set fee for the dynotune.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 03:14 PM
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I hear ya on being short of cash, but if you drop $50 on a non contact thermometer, you can take cylinder head temperature readings yourself and decide just how hot you want to run your "oven".

My story, I went ahead and bought the Harley oil temp gauge, and it has worked flawlessly for 23k miles. I live in Wisconsin, and run Mobile One v-twin, and Hogg Chopps lowers. Just did a 900 miles three day weekend this past FRI-SAT-SUN, and actually crossed over into the UP of michigan one evening.

I saw oil temps consistently between 230 and 255 degrees, and we were running hard, (third gear, from 2-4k, running sweepers for hours on end each day). Outside air temps were never over 90 degrees, and it got down to 60 degrees at night.

I'm still debating adding an oil cooler based on this last weekend.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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I got a set of the Kury mid-frame heat deflectors and also arranged for an oil cooler and oil temp gauge for later this week. I do have some $ (not enough for the new headpipes, tuner, and dyno work yet) but smaller $ spent now are well-spent and will help reduce risk afterward too.

Y'all are offering some really good ideas - thanks. Sure would like to go ahead and ditch that CAT now though.

ETA: The wait really comes down to the $700-$800 for the tuner and dyno.

Bring 'em home or send us back!!

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 06:54 PM
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I agree with EasternSP................Ride it for a while after your headpipe install .....then if you feel like it needs to be tuned.....research and find a good tuner...finding a good tuner will save you money and time....
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider9809 View Post
I agree with EasternSP................Ride it for a while after your headpipe install .....then if you feel like it needs to be tuned.....research and find a good tuner...finding a good tuner will save you money and time....
Yep. He sure got my attention and now you too. It's looking "do-able" and I sure want it to be that way.

I've got more confidence now that I can rely upon my ancient "read the plugs" memories to avoid gross problems during the first ride or two and then probably just go for it for a month or so. Thanks for offering your opinions y'all.

Bring 'em home or send us back!!

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 10:17 PM
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4getNo1, Let me add this,... I put Vance and Hines True Duels on my 2005 FLHTSE2. Also installed Sampson 33" Fishtail Drag Mufflers. ALL HOLLOW! Bought a SERT, and had a guy tune it in Dayton, Ohio. I live in Fairfield, bout 45 minutes South.When I rode it up there man,... was it LOUD, BADASS, and all that,I could notice at 45 mph man that thing KICKED IN! Tuner showed me how lean I was running when he put it on the Dyno. It really wasnt all that bad. He mostly adjusted the air fuel ratio. That bike had the typical Fishtail deceleration clackle. The Tuner took all that clackle out.He left a little in there, cause it just sounded to GOOD, and I told him to.He had the air fuel mix staight across the chart. A GOOD TUNER can do WONDERS. So the, No not really? My answer to that would be,"Why was I even thinkn like that!" -Good Idea? "Its a NO BRAINER"- Absolutely! No way around it? I agree w/the rest of the boys, "You'll be fine for now, but it will get done"


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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 08:00 AM
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Okay...here's my experience so far....I bought my 09 cvo road glide used last year. The previous owner installed 4" screaming eagle mufflers on it and it had the se air cleaner on it. It ran fine and he never re tuned it. I had a harley dealership recently install a Fuel Moto stainless steel non cat head pipe, Vance & Hines Hi out-put mufflers, and a set of Wood TW-7H cams. After the install the dealership performed a dyno tune with a SERT. The result of the dyno tune was very generic at best. The hp. and torgue numbers or results are not there or what I expected they should be. The bike stumbles below 2300 rpm, very flat, and just does not have a crisp throttle response. So........I have a dyno/tune appointment set up in the middle of August with a tuner/bike shop that is NOT a harley dealership and he has experience with Woods cams. An expreienced tuner is VERY important, I wish I would have went to a experience tuner the 1st time. EasternSP and Neano62 are spot on with their advice.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-03-2010, 02:32 PM
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From my understanding if you have had already had the Reflash by HD, you will need to do another reflash at least if you change the headpipe, because by having the reflash done already, you have programmed your bikes computer to run with the current set up, and wont adjust with the new headpipes.
However if you get a Power Commander or tuner, I believe these are what make the adjustments to the AFR. So... If you go to new headpipe, you either have to do another HD reflash, or get a Power Commander etc to do the job.
Thats why i have chosen to not do a reflash until I get a Power Commander and full exhaust. By not doing a reflash at this point, my bike will adjust to he proper AFR. It will continue to run lean and hot still though because thats the way the computer wants the bike to run from stock. though the tuners are expensive, you have more control over the AFR.

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