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ECM/Fuel Management systems ECM/Fuel Management systems For Road Glides

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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Post for Jamie @ FM

Hey Jamie, question for you, Why do we still need to run the narrow bands (or any O2 sensors) if we have a good download? Won't it just use a look up table no matter what the riding condition? In other words, why then would it matter if I am in so called closed loop or open loop would it not just use a good look up table for that riding condition?

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 08:44 PM
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 10:54 AM
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A quick answer is the HD-Delphi Speed Density ECM uses a predicted airflow model for fuel delivery based primarily on Manifold Pressure, RPM, and throttle position. Essentially it calculates air mass and delivers the required fueling based on programming and lookup tables (note I said "calculates" rather than measures). The system then uses closed loop for live correction where applicable as many times the delivered AF is less than perfect for a number of reasons; whether it is conditions, fuel, or really anything that is relative. Closed loop simply offers a final layer of correction to ensure the motor is running at its commanded AF.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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A quick answer is the HD-Delphi Speed Density ECM uses a predicted airflow model for fuel delivery based primarily on Manifold Pressure, RPM, and throttle position. Essentially it calculates air mass and delivers the required fueling based on programming and lookup tables (note I said "calculates" rather than measures). The system then uses closed loop for live correction where applicable as many times the delivered AF is less than perfect for a number of reasons; whether it is conditions, fuel, or really anything that is relative. Closed loop simply offers a final layer of correction to ensure the motor is running at its commanded AF.
So even after a good download of lookup tables the O2 sensors still are used to adjust (improve) fuel trim further in real time?
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 09:54 AM
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So even after a good download of lookup tables the O2 sensors still are used to adjust (improve) fuel trim further in real time?
Yes, fuel correction is the specific purpose of closed loop.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 10:22 AM
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A quick answer is the HD-Delphi Speed Density ECM uses a predicted airflow model for fuel delivery based primarily on Manifold Pressure, RPM, and throttle position. Essentially it calculates air mass and delivers the required fueling based on programming and lookup tables (note I said "calculates" rather than measures). The system then uses closed loop for live correction where applicable as many times the delivered AF is less than perfect for a number of reasons; whether it is conditions, fuel, or really anything that is relative. Closed loop simply offers a final layer of correction to ensure the motor is running at its commanded AF.
So are you saying that the onboard HD/ Delphi ECM constantly "recalculates" for the optimal AFR, or that the installed aftermarket unit (FP3, Dyna Jet, Dyna vision, Ect) recalculates based on demand parameters?

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 11:59 AM
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So are you saying that the onboard HD/ Delphi ECM constantly "recalculates" for the optimal AFR, or that the installed aftermarket unit (FP3, Dyna Jet, Dyna vision, Ect) recalculates based on demand parameters?
The ECM provides fuel delivery based on its programming (regardless if it is stock or re-tuned). It is continually calculating based on the calibration, look up tables, and sensor data. A tuning product re-programs for a different set of parameters, whether this is to correct/revise the values for the same combination, or to accomodate a different exhaust or engine setup.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 04:50 PM
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The ECM provides fuel delivery based on its programming (regardless if it is stock or re-tuned). It is continually calculating based on the calibration, look up tables, and sensor data. A tuning product re-programs for a different set of parameters, whether this is to correct/revise the values for the same combination, or to accomodate a different exhaust or engine setup.
I'm not sure I understand what your'e saying. If, as you say, " The ECM provides fuel delivery based on its programming (regardless if it is stock or re-tuned). It is continually calculating based on the calibration, look up tables, and sensor data." and, "A tuning product re-programs for a different set of parameters, whether this is to correct/revise the values for the same combination, or to accommodate a different exhaust or engine setup." Aren't they constantly adjusting for the changes each of them make? Or does the add on programmer send a set of calculations to "fool" the ECM into sending the desired inputs to the injectors? If the add on programmers only cause the OEM ECM to constantly adjust to its preset parameters, what good are they? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand. I always thought that the add-on programmers either override the ECM or overwrite them with an new set of parameters based on preset parameters I.E. preset maps.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 11:55 AM
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I'm not sure I understand what your'e saying. If, as you say, " The ECM provides fuel delivery based on its programming (regardless if it is stock or re-tuned). It is continually calculating based on the calibration, look up tables, and sensor data." and, "A tuning product re-programs for a different set of parameters, whether this is to correct/revise the values for the same combination, or to accommodate a different exhaust or engine setup." Aren't they constantly adjusting for the changes each of them make? Or does the add on programmer send a set of calculations to "fool" the ECM into sending the desired inputs to the injectors? If the add on programmers only cause the OEM ECM to constantly adjust to its preset parameters, what good are they? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand. I always thought that the add-on programmers either override the ECM or overwrite them with an new set of parameters based on preset parameters I.E. preset maps.
Not completely clear what you are asking, however my reference above was related specifically to flash tuning and closed loop. As far as a piggyback module such as the Power Commander it does not fool the ECM, it is a processor that runs downstream of the ECM with drivers that run the injectors and igntion. It applies a +/- correction to what the ECM is delivering based on what is written in the map, the original V&H FuelPak operated the same way but it did not use map programming it used a series of codes and values on the device and was a fuel only device. There are however some products on the market that are basic pulse spreaders that modify the injector pw, and there have also been various products over the years that used sensor offset (none currently that I know of for H-D's)

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 02:00 PM
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so should you have the O2 sensors connected when you have a PCV or not?
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