No Fire at coil ? / Twilight Zone ?? - Road Glide Forums
ECM/Fuel Management systems ECM/Fuel Management systems For Road Glides

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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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No Fire at coil ? / Twilight Zone ??

I have an 07 Street glide now Road glide. I have just gone through break-in on a S&S 110 Power Package and had just finished a 150 mile ride. Bike ran flawless. I was trailering the bike to an upholster friend so I started bike to put in enclosed trailer. After the upholster trip I backed it out of the trailer and it spit and sputtered and has not fired since.
I have consistant power with key on, hit starter and test light shows power at coil to Yel/green, Yel/blue,Blue/org.with starter engaged. The yel/blu power to injectors are energized when hit starter button. I have checked fuses- all good and grounds appear fine.
So I just bought a new factory coil thinking all power to coil appears fine, and with it going on 12 years old, why not be sure, to no avail. Same issue ,occasional fire at plugs on the last engine rotation.The 4 terminal connector at coil is fine, I have pulled off the terminal lock and checked wiring and terminals- all are in good shape.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Arkie
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 11:06 PM
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Electrical problem suck! I would suggest just taking it into a HD dealership and let them troubleshoot the problem. I'm all for doing your own work on the bike but sometimes there are things that to difficult for you to fix. Because there is power to the coil when you test the wiring it doesn't mean that the power will be there when you try to start the bike.
You mentioned that you have inter minted spark I would suggest checking all the ground connection first. Also there has been instances where the seat pan rubs on the ECM and the wires going into the ECM are compromised, this is common when the bike has a aftermarket seat. The reason I suggested that you take it into the dealer is because electrical problem can be hard to find and it may cost you more time,money and frustration then if you just took the bike into a shop that has the proper test equipment. Good luck I hope it all works out well for you.


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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I have checked grounds. Taking it to Harley is the last thing I want to consider.
These are other points of the situation. When I hit the starter it shows 300 RPM on the tach so the pick up is working. I did have DTC codes of 1351 & 1354 = coil driver open/low and I assumed since I had power in and not at plugs it was a bad or weak coil. So I bought new factory coil. When it makes last rotation with starter engaged I see fire/spark 1 time ?
I'm dead in the water ! But open to look at possibilities. Thanks, Arkie
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 11:07 AM
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A spark tester connected in series with the plugs would work the best to check for spark. The PCM needs to see compression for it to fire. ION sensing issue. So it has to have the plugs/plug wires connected.
1) Any codes stored?
2) What is your fuel pressure?
3) Try disconnecting your battery for 5 min and then hooking it back up and cycling your run/ignition switch a few times.
4) ohm out the CPS.
5) If you have a factory service manual you may want to check the bank angle sensor as well.


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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Big Block Bobby - Wins the Prize!!! I had done all after connecting the new coil but I did not know it will not fire without compression. I had laid the plugs on the cylinders and was not getting fire . I have never seen a motor that the ECM requiered compression to allow spark. I had read about the ion density sensor and did not understand that this is part of it's function. Thank you Bobby you just taught an Old Dog New Tricks ! Thanks,Arkie
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 01:37 PM
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Great! Glad to help.
Always keep one of these handy. https://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-2392.../dp/B0002STS4O
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkie View Post
Big Block Bobby - Wins the Prize!!! I had done all after connecting the new coil but I did not know it will not fire without compression. I had laid the plugs on the cylinders and was not getting fire . I have never seen a motor that the ECM requiered compression to allow spark. I had read about the ion density sensor and did not understand that this is part of it's function. Thank you Bobby you just taught an Old Dog New Tricks ! Thanks,Arkie
I also thank you BBB. I will add this to my things to remember folder.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 03:02 AM
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A spark tester connected in series with the plugs would work the best to check for spark. The PCM needs to see compression for it to fire. ION sensing issue. So it has to have the plugs/plug wires connected.
I wouldn't say this is true! I've taken the spark plugs out on my 08 and laid them on the cylinders and turn the engine over with no compression and the spark plugs sparked away. Now it may be the case with the newer bikes but your 07 should be like my 08 and you don't need compression to test the spark plugs. Another thing that may cause intermittent spark is a bad CPS. If you don't figure it out don't dump a bunch of money replacing parts get a professional with the proper test equipment to look at it. You already bought a coil and that didn't fix it, by the way my 08 has over 100,000 miles on it and it has the original coil plug wires and sensors so they do not fail often. Good luck


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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:18 PM
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In a nutshell... the ION sensor/ECM senses how much current it takes to jump the gap. Very low current when the plug is NOT under compression. It is not so much that it wont spark, but it may not have high intensity spark every revolution. It can also cause it to fire every few revolutions instead of how it normally would. Some bikes are worse about it than others. Depends on the resistance of the wires/plugs and how good of a ground you have with the plug. I have seen some that have the black finish on the fins that wont ground well enough to work where as the bare aluminum will at times.

The ION sense system works very well for Harley's. The typical knock sensors found on most modern engines don't work well with our air cooled/noisy engines. The typical sewing machine noise our valve train makes is enough to cause most piezo knock sensors to tell the PCM to retard the timing.

The Delphi Ionized Current Sensing Ignition Subsystem features direct in-cylinder measurement of combustion quality. It uses conventional spark plugs as "in cylinder" sensors for combustion quality. The Delphi ion sense ignition subsystem also offers more precise misfire detection (determined by combustion results instead of speed calculations) and more accurate knock detection (measured by combustion signal not engine vibration). In the ion sense ignition subsystem, the igniter, bias and buffer circuits are fully integrated and encapsulated in the coil as one unit. An output signal wire of the ion sensing measurement runs from the coil to the ECM in the fuel injected Harley Davidson Twin Cam motors. This output from the coil tells the ECM what adjustments are to be made.

Ion sensing systems are based on the principle that electrical current flow in an ionized gas is proportional to the flame electrical conductivity. In other words, by measuring the current flow in the combustion ion trail between the spark plug electrodes can provide the combustion efficiency during combustion itself. This turns the spark plug into the engine sensor, providing real time information on each cylinder's unique needs.


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