Stg 2, SE Auto Tuner w/ V&H catless head pipes? - Road Glide Forums
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Question Stg 2, SE Auto Tuner w/ V&H catless head pipes?

Greetings, If I may ask for other's thoughts-
I have a 2017 RGS, Stg2 SE torque cam, SE street canons, SE high flow air filter with HD Stage 2 map uploaded through SESTP tuner.

I picked up a SE Autotuner and was planning on getting bungs tapped to 18 mm on the OEM headpipe, but now have the opportunity to get a set of V&H Power Duals header pipes, which are catless. My hunch is that the stg 2 map, autotuner, ECM, and widebands will be able to dial in the AFR/VE/etc. so that the use of catless head pipe won't be a problem. Not really interested in 'jumping ship' to a FP3 or other tuner. Thoughts on using the SE auto tuner with the V&H power duals?

Thanks!
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:37 PM
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I'm prepared to be educated here, but one of the reasons that I jumped on my dealer's offer of a catless Vance and Hines header**** with the aftermarket slipons I wanted plus the stage 2 Torque cam and associated adjustable pushrods and S&S tappet cuffs etc, was.....the dealer offered a PowerVision Dynojet tuner/tune in with the deal.

That's what GOOD dealers are offering down here....the chance to go aftermarket without any warranty issues. They will stand behind their work and the H-D warranty after their own installation of aftermarket engine parts and tuner/tune.

I am under the impression that any H-D branded tuner is hobbled by EPA restrictions.

I would have gone to the equivalent of a Stage 2 kit at an aftermarket shop if my dealer was offering the same deal but with any H-D tuner.


***Dresser Duals. Yeah, I know all about ''loss of torque'' claims but I need that neat and tidy look... I hate the ''meeting point'' cover on the Power Duals and the Rineheart Slimlines etc near the gearbox....and: what am I REALLY gonna notice, coming straight off a 1980 Shovelhead to a catless 2019 Road Glide M8 with a torque cam and associated intake and exhaust upgrades?

Last edited by kiwidave; 03-20-2019 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelCantControl View Post
Greetings, If I may ask for other's thoughts-
I have a 2017 RGS, Stg2 SE torque cam, SE street canons, SE high flow air filter with HD Stage 2 map uploaded through SESTP tuner.

I picked up a SE Autotuner and was planning on getting bungs tapped to 18 mm on the OEM headpipe, but now have the opportunity to get a set of V&H Power Duals header pipes, which are catless. My hunch is that the stg 2 map, autotuner, ECM, and widebands will be able to dial in the AFR/VE/etc. so that the use of catless head pipe won't be a problem. Not really interested in 'jumping ship' to a FP3 or other tuner. Thoughts on using the SE auto tuner with the V&H power duals?

Thanks!
I think the Auto Tune Module will deal with the aftermarket pipes just fine. I say that because of some experiences that I've had. As an example; I took a 107 RGU and turned the engine into a 117 with the Stage 3 cam, CVO flywheels and 114 cylinders and pistons. There is no map for turning a 107 into a 117 so I used the map for the 114 Stage 3 kit, put the Street Tuner in learn mode and went and rode around. After uploading the changes that the tuner saw, the bike ran great.

2018 FLTRXS Wicked Red
Harley Master Tech at Hampton Roads Harley in Yorktown, VA
Disabled Combat Vet - JTAC 96-06
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by crazy4ink View Post
I think the Auto Tune Module will deal with the aftermarket pipes just fine. I say that because of some experiences that I've had. As an example; I took a 107 RGU and turned the engine into a 117 with the Stage 3 cam, CVO flywheels and 114 cylinders and pistons. There is no map for turning a 107 into a 117 so I used the map for the 114 Stage 3 kit, put the Street Tuner in learn mode and went and rode around. After uploading the changes that the tuner saw, the bike ran great.
Now my curiosity on this topic is kicking in. Did this bike ever have to see the dyno? Have you found typically with the auto tune that a close base map can be loaded up with the pro street tuner and auto tuned and the results are satisfactory without a dyno being necessary?

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Old 03-21-2019, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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@kiwidave - Sounds like a nice setup! I am doing all my own work. So this time around I decided to keep all the parts HD rather than doing too much mixing and matching. Well, until now that is ;-) The EPA restrictions don't bother me at all. The bike is more than fine, even stock. I just like to tinker ..... without cratering it, that is. Definitely agree on the tunnel vision of some critics in regards to picking parts. You build yours, I'll build mine, and we'll ride together. -cheers

@crazy4ink - That's what I am thinking. I can't see an open pipe between a SE air cleaner and SE slipons creating such a drastic change in airflow that the Auto Tuner won't be able to dial it in. It's obvious that the existing (if flashed) ECM and injectors can adjust for some extreme conditions. I'm expecting that either the Auto Tune module or even the straight up SESTP in learning mode will get everything where it needs to be. Would just be nice to hear someone else say "Yeah, I did exactly that, no trouble" ;-) BTW: Nice build!

@BH#103 - That's my expectation. That is, so long as the base map is close, the learning mode should be fine to dial it in. I just don't know what "close" means and where open-loop mode settings come into play; that is, the wide open areas and decal areas that operate in an open loop mode where the O2 sensors are just along for the ride. FWIW, in my estimation, unless you have some hard core customizations going on, dyno sessions are more of a luxury than a necessity. To me, close is usually good enough and that dyno tune that someone got on a hot humid day in Daytona may not be quite as good on a cold dry night in the mountains. Sometimes the middle ground is the place to be. Your mileage may vary, of course. (no pun intended) - Cheers
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4ink View Post
I think the Auto Tune Module will deal with the aftermarket pipes just fine. I say that because of some experiences that I've had. As an example; I took a 107 RGU and turned the engine into a 117 with the Stage 3 cam, CVO flywheels and 114 cylinders and pistons. There is no map for turning a 107 into a 117 so I used the map for the 114 Stage 3 kit, put the Street Tuner in learn mode and went and rode around. After uploading the changes that the tuner saw, the bike ran great.
Now my curiosity on this topic is kicking in. Did this bike ever have to see the dyno? Have you found typically with the auto tune that a close base map can be loaded up with the pro street tuner and auto tuned and the results are satisfactory without a dyno being necessary?
The dealership I used to work at had a chassis dyno, this dealership does not, so I can’t answer whether or not the auto tuned map would be as good as a dyno tune. What I have found is that, after installing the auto tune module and the correct base map with a Street Tuner, putting the tuner in record mode and riding around for 20 mins or so will make a drastic change to the map. In effect, you are resetting where “zero” or nominal would be and then giving the wide band O2s the wider adjustment range in a spot better suited to your bike’s configuration.
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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As a follow up my own post, although I have only been out for a few hours and through 2 self-tuning sessions, the bike runs great. I have just installed:

SE Auto Tuner with wide band O2 sensors
Vance and Hines Power Duals
HD Stage 2 Torque cam, SE adjustable push rods
S&S Cam plate, oil pump and cam bearing

already had
SE Air cleaner
SE Street Canon slip ons.

Comments on the Auto Tuner install: The length of the front 02 senor wires is just barely a little short. I made it work, but a 6 - 8 inch extension will allow me to run it more neatly along the frame rail. When bolted on the V&H PDs, getting the 18 mm (boy, are they big) sensors past the frame was tricky, but they fit. Have a second set of hands available to minimize the frustration. If using the stock head pipes, be aware that the O2 sensor bungs need to be reamed to 18 mm. My local dealer charges one labor hour, which is considerably cheaper than the tool HD sells.
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auto tuner , power duals , sespt , stage 2 , v&h

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