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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2014, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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120R and 660SMs

Hi - need any advice...

'13 FLTRX w/120R with SE 58mm intake, SE Ventilator, Reinhart 4" muffs, Fullsac DX headers, TTS Mastertune, conservative tune by TMAN. 120H, 117T. Great(!) gas mileage. No issues for 5100 miles.

Quote from TMAN for 660SM cam install. $1800. Cams, labor, tune = ~ $1K. They added Lifter Set, Push Rod Set, and oil pump (~$800).

Wouldn't the 120R racing components (lifters, push rods, etc.) be "fine" with these cams? Or, are they pushing "extras" on me?

tks all.
Josh
Ft. Bragg, NC

2013 FLTRX120R (For Sale)
2012 FLTRU Ember Red (Sold in 2015)
2010 FLSTN Red/Blk (saving for the kid)
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2014, 08:51 PM
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Most likely they are giving you S&S premium lifters to replace the Se ones that will collapse over time with those cams.

We just took a set out of a 120 3300 miles rear intake was making lots of noise
Installed S&S pushrods and lifters all good now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRB_RME5 View Post
Hi - need any advice...

'13 FLTRX w/120R with SE 58mm intake, SE Ventilator, Reinhart 4" muffs, Fullsac DX headers, TTS Mastertune, conservative tune by TMAN. 120H, 117T. Great(!) gas mileage. No issues for 5100 miles.

Quote from TMAN for 660SM cam install. $1800. Cams, labor, tune = ~ $1K. They added Lifter Set, Push Rod Set, and oil pump (~$800).

Wouldn't the 120R racing components (lifters, push rods, etc.) be "fine" with these cams? Or, are they pushing "extras" on me?

tks all.
Josh
Ft. Bragg, NC
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRB_RME5 View Post
Hi - need any advice...

'13 FLTRX w/120R with SE 58mm intake, SE Ventilator, Reinhart 4" muffs, Fullsac DX headers, TTS Mastertune, conservative tune by TMAN. 120H, 117T. Great(!) gas mileage. No issues for 5100 miles.

Quote from TMAN for 660SM cam install. $1800. Cams, labor, tune = ~ $1K. They added Lifter Set, Push Rod Set, and oil pump (~$800).

Wouldn't the 120R racing components (lifters, push rods, etc.) be "fine" with these cams? Or, are they pushing "extras" on me?

tks all.
Josh
Ft. Bragg, NC


Hey Josh, how "streetable" is that 120R?...I always wondered


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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2014, 10:15 PM
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I have the 660 sm in my motor. took out s and s 625.they run hotter and motor turns over a bit harder when hot.probably less or no overlap in the valve timing.can tell you right now the torque and pull is way stronger and comes in earlier than the 625 cams.I aslo put in S and S lifters and tman pushrods.they come in around 3000-4500 and you'll love the pull.The stock cams come in way late. Probably too late for daily use. A great daily rider engine.12000 miles on my 120 right now.Rode 4900 road trip in 13 days last year.

2011 COOL BLUE PEARL FLTRX , 120R,
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-22-2014, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRB_RME5 View Post
Hi - need any advice...

'13 FLTRX w/120R with SE 58mm intake, SE Ventilator, Reinhart 4" muffs, Fullsac DX headers, TTS Mastertune, conservative tune by TMAN. 120H, 117T. Great(!) gas mileage. No issues for 5100 miles.

Quote from TMAN for 660SM cam install. $1800. Cams, labor, tune = ~ $1K. They added Lifter Set, Push Rod Set, and oil pump (~$800).

Wouldn't the 120R racing components (lifters, push rods, etc.) be "fine" with these cams? Or, are they pushing "extras" on me?

tks all.
Josh
Ft. Bragg, NC
'Had T-Man work the Heads / TB (and used his 625 Cams) in the 117, he never seemed "pushy" to me, in fact, anything but. T-Man Rocks!

When researching the 117 Build, S&S Premium Lifters were recommended > 10x more than any other lifter. Pretty much all the S&S stuff is good to go.

When I asked the Indy that did the machine work on the bottom end about pushrods, he told me that the SE Adjustable Pushrods were a "mechanics dream" ( he could have sold me any brand but HD)

T.R. sells the Thayer Oil Pump, they are supposed to be the cat's ass. A lot of reputable Indys say that the OE/SE pumps are fine.

Just out of curiosity, what do you want out of the cam change that you don't already have?

"I've read dozens of books about heros and crooks, and learned much from both of their styles"

'09 SERG 117/DD7 "THE SHORT BUS"
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-22-2014, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks all for the input. I do appreciate it. So far, the 120 is very street able. Of course, this is all stock from the crate with a conservative tune. Just like many people say, leave the crate engine (any displacement) stock and it'll run forever (with proper PMCS). I should leave well enough alone; I guess I want that torque pull earlier, even though this thing will leave most cars and motorcycles in the rear...it is not to show off, but to get the great feeling the ride gives. I'm talking to TR today and will try to decide. Again, thanks all.

Josh

2013 FLTRX120R (For Sale)
2012 FLTRU Ember Red (Sold in 2015)
2010 FLSTN Red/Blk (saving for the kid)
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-22-2014, 09:00 AM
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The S&S premium lifters are very high quality in comparison to many others available nowadays. I'd recommend changing the valve springs if I were you. The spring pressures on those heads are way over the top and beat the valvetrain to death and can contribute to premature lifter failure and inner cam bearing failure and there is simply no good reason to run the pressures those springs exert on the pushrods, lifters, bearings, and even the valve stems and valve seats. Cams with that much lift coupled with very high spring pressures cause side loading on the valve and contribute to premature problems. TR has impeccable craftsmanship but for street motors, some of his head work is a bit pricey for many guys, however, based on what I've seen from his heads that he now welds the ports up on (a new standard with his heads I believe) they do indeed make more power than comparable builds with the same type of components aside from the heads (at least on the right dyno) . Also his flywheel lightening process and end product are very nice as well but I'm not sure it's any better than the likes of R&R IMO and again, for a street motor, I'm not sure the cubic dollars spent on some of the high end components he has developed are worth the gains for a street motor. ESPECIALLY as hard as it is to find a dyno operator who is capable AND willing to spend the time it takes to tune a motor of that magnitude for all it's worth. I just came in from tuning a bike all night. This is 4 weeks in a row I have pulled an all nighter at least 1 night a week for a month. Most Dyno's don't have strain gauges to measure power in real time at every throttle position and every rpm and the patience and persistence it takes to poke and prod to find all the power is time consuming and monotonous to most people.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-22-2014, 10:16 AM
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+1 on the valve springs. After I sent my heads to Baisleys he told me the springs were binding at .741 take that with a .682 lift cam and there isn`t much room. Not to mention the seat pressures were off the scale. Also with less than 2K miles the rear intake valve and guide was showing signs of wear.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-22-2014, 12:19 PM
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Josh,

You might want to consider the T-Man 625s, they come early, stay late, produce really good #s, and are quiet.

'Started with the T-Man 625s in the 117, and somebody would need a gun for me to consider anything else LOL!

htt & cvo have rave reviews on the 625s by folks that have run them.

"I've read dozens of books about heros and crooks, and learned much from both of their styles"

'09 SERG 117/DD7 "THE SHORT BUS"

Last edited by HeatWave; 08-22-2014 at 12:21 PM.
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