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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Engine Noise

I have a noise i have been chasing for a while now. It actually sounds like it is coming from the valve train. I had hoped the noises were from my transmission that I rebuilt in another thread recently and that did take care of some noise, but not what I'm hearing now.

I did a 107" kit and t-man 555tq cams last fall. The noise started about 300 miles into the break in and I initially thought it was pinging, but after dyno tuning it was still there. I spoke to Frank about it last week and he mentioned that the cams I have are noisy, but my noise is to severe for that I think. I tried the rag over the air cleaner he suggested but it was still there. I met up with Hutmo and Dmize last weekend and both heard my bike and also thought the noise was a problem.

Before heading to Pittsburgh last weekend I had pulled the Rocker covers for a visual and readjusted my pushrods in case they had moved since my build, but everything appeared fine.

Scott at Hillside mentioned in a thread about crank problems to keep an eye on oil pressure and that crank runout can contribute to valve train noise and low oil pressure. This popped into my head on the way home from Pittsburgh so I started focusing on the gauge and realized my oil pressure was between 16 & 18 pounds in the 2800 to 3000 rpm range. It should be about twice that.

I drained the oil and pulled the filter yesterday. I am using the K & P reusable filter which has a magnet built into it and it had a pretty sizable glob of metal soaked oil on the magnet. About the size of a marble.

I pulled the cam chest apart and checked the crank runout. It was less than .003. I didn't notice any unusual wear marks on the cams, oil pump, or crank.

I'm going to swap the cam plate and oil pump for either the Feuling, or SE one. Perhaps the low oil pressure is causing my problem, but the amount of metal on the oil filter has me thinking something worse. If I was a betting man I would have put money on the crank runout being horrific, but not so.

Any other suggestions of things to check?

2009 FLTR MOP
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullhorr View Post
I have a noise i have been chasing for a while now. It actually sounds like it is coming from the valve train. I had hoped the noises were from my transmission that I rebuilt in another thread recently and that did take care of some noise, but not what I'm hearing now.

I did a 107" kit and t-man 555tq cams last fall. The noise started about 300 miles into the break in and I initially thought it was pinging, but after dyno tuning it was still there. I spoke to Frank about it last week and he mentioned that the cams I have are noisy, but my noise is to severe for that I think. I tried the rag over the air cleaner he suggested but it was still there. I met up with Hutmo and Dmize last weekend and both heard my bike and also thought the noise was a problem.

Before heading to Pittsburgh last weekend I had pulled the Rocker covers for a visual and readjusted my pushrods in case they had moved since my build, but everything appeared fine.

Scott at Hillside mentioned in a thread about crank problems to keep an eye on oil pressure and that crank runout can contribute to valve train noise and low oil pressure. This popped into my head on the way home from Pittsburgh so I started focusing on the gauge and realized my oil pressure was between 16 & 18 pounds in the 2800 to 3000 rpm range. It should be about twice that.

I drained the oil and pulled the filter yesterday. I am using the K & P reusable filter which has a magnet built into it and it had a pretty sizable glob of metal soaked oil on the magnet. About the size of a marble.

I pulled the cam chest apart and checked the crank runout. It was less than .003. I didn't notice any unusual wear marks on the cams, oil pump, or crank.

I'm going to swap the cam plate and oil pump for either the Feuling, or SE one. Perhaps the low oil pressure is causing my problem, but the amount of metal on the oil filter has me thinking something worse. If I was a betting man I would have put money on the crank runout being horrific, but not so.

Any other suggestions of things to check?
Did you replace your lifters?


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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 10:54 PM
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Did you replace the lifters? Sounds like a lot of metal shavings going on!
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 12:55 AM
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Add me to the Lifters list.

What's the sound like? Ball peen hammer? If so, who's lifters are you using and how do you set em up?

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 04:38 AM
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Gaterman 1023 series lifters. The following is recommended by Gaterman ...

This preload is recommended for .063" on the intake side and .078" on the exhaust side COLD.

-24 threads per inch pushrods = 1-1/2 turns intake (9 flats intake)
1-7/8 turns exhaust (11 flats exhaust)

-28 threads per inch pushrods = 1-3/4 turns intake (10-1/2 flats intake)
2-1/2 turns exhaust (13 flats exhaust)

-32 threads per inch pushrods = 2 turns intake (12 flats intake)
2-1/2 turns exhaust (15 flats exhaust)
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 07:07 AM
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If suspecting a lifter issue, grab a set of S&S lifters and adhere to their pushrod adjustments.
Should not be any real crazy noises with that little cam.
Scott
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, I used the Gatorman lifters as Frank noted above.

I set the pushrods at 2-1/2 turns per the SE instructions. So by the chart Frank listed above from Gatorman I need to back off on my setting to 1-1/2 on the intake, and 1-7/8 on the exhaust. I measured the thread count and the SE pushrods are 24 TPI. Is it possible that any damage to the valves, guides, or the lifters by having them set at 2-1/2 turns might have caused? Would that little bit of extra load cause the valves to hit the top of the pistons? Ive read where people would go an extra 1/2 to 1 full turn more to quiet valve train noise, so i wouldnt think so. I previously checked the inside of the top rocker box covers and the rockers were not hitting them.

I assume the 2-1/2 turns would not have had any affect on my oil pressure and definitely will be buying either the SE camchest and oil pump, or the Feuling 7074 kit, which comes with new lifters and all the gaskets I'll need. Are there any negatives to the Feuling kit other than the cost? I'll look into the S&S as Scott suggested also and compare the overall cost using the SE parts with it.

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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 10:23 AM
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Good luck resolving this. If you replace the cam support plate and oil pump, go Feuling. Their products are awesome.


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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 11:31 AM
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I drained the oil and pulled the filter yesterday. I am using the K & P reusable filter which has a magnet built into it and it had a pretty sizable glob of metal soaked oil on the magnet. About the size of a marble. Did you find the root cause of this not normal glob of metal?
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 02:11 PM
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Pushrod adjustment shouldn't have any effect on oil pressure. The oil that passes through the lifters and pushrods is metered to the rockers. It doesn't take much oil at all to keep the valve train quiet as long as the hydraulic unit has a sufficient oil feed.

Adjustment WILL have an effect on how the lifter operates, not setting the plunger in a position where the feed hole is exposed to full pressure can cause them to be soft and bottom out (the ball peen sound). Based on Franks suggestions I'd say you've got the plunger feed hole too low in the lifter bore. Try setting them as Frank posted, easy test. Alternatively tear one apart and check it out.

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