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Engine Related Engine Builds and more for Road Glides

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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-17-2013, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Next Project Research

Well, I just finished my 98 CI upgrade on my 01 FLTR and I am really happy with it and I do think that with this bike that I am going to stay put and not increase the CI displacement. However, with that being said, I do need to have a new project. I have been thinking of this for a long time that I would like to build a 113" or 120" Twin cam engine. I know that there are a lot of people that have done this so I thought that this forum would be the only spot really to get complete information. I am really looking forward to this thread as I am sure that there are just endless possibilities that one can choose from.

I am going to start the thread by saying that I am a person that likes to build things for practical purposes, meaning that I am not a straight line rider by any stretch of the imagination but I require that my bike has the power that it needs for all situations. My intentions for this engine as of now is to build it, then sell it.

This engine will be an A engine and I am looking for it to perform at 3000 rpm and up. I know that people will use the cliche, "there is no replacement for displacement," but I do not subscribe to that line of thinking all of the time. What displacement do you think is the most reliable? Why? I am looking for responses that exhibit real world experience. Remember, 120 CI is the max that I want. What cam shaft then would you recommend?

Thanks in advance to all who participate and lets have fun spending virtual money. Please give legitimate reasons as to why you are making the suggestion. Thanks. Lets have some fun but serious at the same time.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-23-2013, 02:34 AM
Torqueinc
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Do you have a budget in mind ?

I like the 4.5 inch stroke 117" or 120" engines

4.06 or 4.125 bore

Reason why is I believe it is the best combination for heavier bikes for a balance between horsepower and torque.

You can also with the right combination of parts build a stock height engine that has no problems with intake manifold fitting,exhaust bolting up as it should or any other associated nonsense.

Heads

With the 117 you could use ported factory 99 or 06 castings,the 120 you might want to step up to a mildly ported CVO 110 head.

Would also suggest you have the heads worked over by a professional.

Guys like John Sachs,Jim Lebo and WFO Larry,do top notch work.

Camshaft ? Have a camshaft ground specifically for the engine you choose to build
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-23-2013, 05:51 AM
Grey beard
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDangerous View Post
Well, I just finished my 98 CI upgrade on my 01 FLTR and I am really happy with it and I do think that with this bike that I am going to stay put and not increase the CI displacement. However, with that being said, I do need to have a new project. I have been thinking of this for a long time that I would like to build a 113" or 120" Twin cam engine. I know that there are a lot of people that have done this so I thought that this forum would be the only spot really to get complete information. I am really looking forward to this thread as I am sure that there are just endless possibilities that one can choose from.

I am going to start the thread by saying that I am a person that likes to build things for practical purposes, meaning that I am not a straight line rider by any stretch of the imagination but I require that my bike has the power that it needs for all situations. My intentions for this engine as of now is to build it, then sell it.

This engine will be an A engine and I am looking for it to perform at 3000 rpm and up. I know that people will use the cliche, "there is no replacement for displacement," but I do not subscribe to that line of thinking all of the time. What displacement do you think is the most reliable? Why? I am looking for responses that exhibit real world experience. Remember, 120 CI is the max that I want. What cam shaft then would you recommend?

Thanks in advance to all who participate and lets have fun spending virtual money. Please give legitimate reasons as to why you are making the suggestion. Thanks. Lets have some fun but serious at the same time.
Bob Lobenburg, the tuner for RC Cycles Hayward, California recently tuned a 117"er of ours, and in spite of the small diameter primary tubes on the Thunderheader, it still ripped 129/137 in touring form.
Oznog on the HTT, runs one of our 120's that showed 141/144, in more hot-rod form, and Splitting Lanes on the HTT, has also 40,000 miles on his 117"er, with a tiny Wood 6 cam,(that we built the 117" around, as he already had it) and popped 119/136, tune by Bruce @ Horsepower Express, in the San Fran Bay area.
Too many others to mention, that have as much power and miles on them.
4 3/8" stroke, 4 1/8" hole, with an off-shelf cam and a set of heads that roll off the needed air, with the proper t/body and pipe, tuned. That straightforward, that simple.
No need to re-invent the wheel, and no rocks will be turned over, finding something new, 'cause it just ain't there.
It's already been done......
Scott
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-23-2013, 07:16 AM
prodrag1320
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if you ever go bigger,do a 124".we do alot of them & get anywhere from 130-145 depending on degree of build,ROCK solid,dependable combination
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-23-2013, 12:34 PM
Torqueinc
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Originally Posted by Hillsidecycle.com View Post
Bob Lobenburg, the tuner for RC Cycles Hayward, California recently tuned a 117"er of ours, and in spite of the small diameter primary tubes on the Thunderheader, it still ripped 129/137 in touring form.
Oznog on the HTT, runs one of our 120's that showed 141/144, in more hot-rod form, and Splitting Lanes on the HTT, has also 40,000 miles on his 117"er, with a tiny Wood 6 cam,(that we built the 117" around, as he already had it) and popped 119/136, tune by Bruce @ Horsepower Express, in the San Fran Bay area.
Too many others to mention, that have as much power and miles on them.
4 3/8" stroke, 4 1/8" hole, with an off-shelf cam and a set of heads that roll off the needed air, with the proper t/body and pipe, tuned. That straightforward, that simple.
No need to re-invent the wheel, and no rocks will be turned over, finding something new, 'cause it just ain't there.
It's already been done......
Scott
This kind of thinking has been and will continue to be a recipe for mediocrity.

As usual no help whatsoever just another advertisement .

And no dyno sheets.
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-23-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodrag1320 View Post
if you ever go bigger,do a 124".we do alot of them & get anywhere from 130-145 depending on degree of build,ROCK solid,dependable combination
Good point made by Kirby, as a 124" combination will take most folks beyond, where they thought they needed to be.
Scott
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2013, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqueinc View Post
Do you have a budget in mind ?

I like the 4.5 inch stroke 117" or 120" engines

4.06 or 4.125 bore

Reason why is I believe it is the best combination for heavier bikes for a balance between horsepower and torque.

You can also with the right combination of parts build a stock height engine that has no problems with intake manifold fitting,exhaust bolting up as it should or any other associated nonsense.

Heads

With the 117 you could use ported factory 99 or 06 castings,the 120 you might want to step up to a mildly ported CVO 110 head.

Would also suggest you have the heads worked over by a professional.

Guys like John Sachs,Jim Lebo and WFO Larry,do top notch work.

Camshaft ? Have a camshaft ground specifically for the engine you choose to build
Budget? Well I guess I would have to say that the budget would be whatever it takes to get it right. I am with you on this one, I have been playing around a little and it seems that I would like to have the 117" over anything else. I also agree that I would probably would like to have a camshaft specifically made as well. Now the heads are a different story. I was thinking of the Hurricane heads. Just a thought at the moment. I think that those would be a lot closer to what the 99-06 castings would be and for about the same money. LOL, I hear Mr. Sachs is kind of a dink....lol.

Now here are some real questions. I have heard so many builders say that HD's cases are weak and we all know what is happening with the crankshafts (pressed), which is truly the better way to go? HD cases or S&S? I am leaning towards the S&S cases but I am worried that I won't be able to badge the cam cover using HD stuff or is this just not true? I have been looking been looking around and I do think that I would go with DarkHorse for the crankshaft. I have also been looking around and am thinking that I would go with the Fueling cam plate and pump, S&S gear drives, and the
Fueling oil pump.

More on the cam. It was suggested that I use the Reaper 594 but I think that that cam is a little too high in the rpm's for me as far as the intake event is concerned. I would like to see one with the same lift and other events but with the IVC more around 48-50. What are you thoughts?
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-26-2013, 02:15 AM
Torqueinc
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Again,camshaft should be tailored to the combination...until you have airflow numbers from the heads and have decided what compression you wanna run no point in even looking at one.

As far as Sachs goes,one smart guy and a craftsman....something the majority of the HD wanna be porters/builders are not.

Same for Libo and WFO Larry

Crank....darkhorse can swap you out a set of H beams,new pin ,pro plug and balance and no worries

A great exhaust system and tune is also needed for a 117-120+ build,you can look no further than Drago's bike works.

Frank,a vendor on this forum makes a great pipe for the build you are suggesting and he can tune with the best of em.

Last edited by Torqueinc; 05-26-2013 at 09:02 AM.
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-26-2013, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqueinc View Post
Again,camshaft should be tailored to the combination...until you have airflow numbers from the heads and have decided what compression you wanna run no point in even looking at one.

As far as Sachs goes,one smart guy and a craftsman....something the majority of the HD wanna be porters/builders are not.

Same for Libo and WFO Larry

Crank....darkhorse can swap you out a set of H beams,new pin ,pro plug and balance and no worries

A great exhaust system and tune is also needed for a 117-120+ build,you can look no further than Drago's bike works.

Frank,a vendor on this forum makes a great pipe for the build you are suggesting and he can tune with the best of em.
As I had said, I like compression so I would be running at about 9.5-9.8 corrected. OF course the heads will have to flow in order to support, that is just a common knowledge thing John. . I am not talking about buying an SE crank and then having Hoban redo it, I am talking about buying one of their cranks, period. You really didn't answer about the cases, which do you suggest? the HD case or the S&S case? As far as Drago's goes, I have spoken with Frank many times and am aware of his pipes and the quality that they represent.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-28-2013, 06:32 AM
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H-D T/C crankcases will handle all the "street" power you will throw at them.
Bored too many to recall, and no issues.
For instance, 124" with a Pro-Charger...........no issues.
Scott
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