M8 Engine Fail - Stage III - 15K - Road Glide Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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M8 Engine Fail - Stage III - 15K

I had a engine failure / replacement - I do not usually post but I figured with the many discussions going on about the M8 it may assist you in determining if you are having a problem. I'm going to go from stop to start so it will be a long one. 2017 RGS - Stage III install @ 2800 Miles - V&H PowerDuals

07/29/17 - 2PM Lincoln, NH - on my way to work the HD Demo truck - Pedestrian walked out in front of bike, medically disabled, hit brakes extremely hard, ABS system activated, stopped no collision. I continued to demo truck two or three miles, entering driveway I noticed red oil light on, I was so mad at the individuals that allowed the disabled individual walk into road, I was not looking at the displays - so I'm not sure when light came on, I pulled over, shut down - checked oil levels all ok, temperature normal, bike had run fine. let bike sit talked with HD Tech at truck - could find no issues started bike after working demo truck no issues - Tech agreed that I ride it home (45 miles) keeping an eye on it - did so no issues no lights - checked DTC's ECM gave a PO522 and a BCM of UO184 with the part numbers - the 522 is oil pressure / sending unit and the 184 is lost communication with radio - my thoughts at the time is I hit the brakes so hard it stalled a bit - the momentum kept it running setting the light on.- bike had 5300 miles at the time of incident - dealer had done the 5K service that week. Dealer notified agreed to watch it and bring it in - everything checked out - first oil sending unit was replaced / installed as the thought's were that it was a possible culprit.

8/19/17 - 5Pm - Returning from a 300 mile day trip - 6800K on bike - Oil light came on after I had just made a fuel stop - pulled over shut down - Oil levels all OK, restarted no light - info center showed Oil Pressure OK - Rode forty miles home ran fine - Checked codes ECM showed PO523 / Oil Pressure / Sending Unit - back to dealer 8/20/17 Oil pump replaced / oil sending unit replaced - they found an issue with the other sending unit wires frayed - Dealer felt I should have no further problems - I like the dealer but I told them I felt the engine was gone - but I trusted them in following up and I knew they had steps they were required to follow.

Bike was fine for the rest of the season - excellent power / performance with the stage three, I was apprehensive but hoped issues were over.

05/01/18 Oil dripping from Air Cleaner - had just done the 10K service prior to putting it away for the winter, had been checking the fluids all ok - had put a few hundred on it close to the dealer so I pulled in and had them check the fluids. They checked said all was spot on - I told them I was not comfortable with the pressure issue - but I would keep an eye on it, the M8's have pressure issues and I do my best not to create problems - one of the things I do not do is to start on the Jiffy stand I always start upright - the pick up on the Jiffy stand is questionable and can create some pressure issues. No matter what I did the oil continued to drip - I know HD's have had it for awhile - a little I did not mind but no way did I want oil sucked into the valves - I went with the others and lowered the level a little (½ qt) it improved - still had to carry a napkin and touch the bottom of the cleaner every couple hundred miles.

6/28/18 checked transmission level - nothing showed on dipstick - I was then back to my original thoughts that the engine was on its way out.

6/30/18 13,300 miles after fueling - started - oil light came on and stayed on - shut down checked oil all ok - Codes showed ECM PO522 / PO523 - BCM UO184 - SP UO184 once again the BCM & SP showed it lost commutations - called dealer told them light went on stayed on, I shut down re-started no issues - not sure if ignition failed to make complete contact - who knows - but I still felt major issue with engine - I told them I would bring it in if it happened again.

7/15/18 On ride oil light came on - pulled over shut down - ECM PO522 & PO523 - once again everything OK with the levels no smoke - no isuues - this time on re-start the light stayed on - shut down - let sit - re-start light out ran fine - I called dealer and told them I was on the way in - I told them they needed to tear it down and see what was going on - they agreed I dropped the bike off.

That's a quick synopsis of what took place - there were a couple of other tell tale signs - on one run I had noticed a loss of power - noticed it took a little more effort to shift (checking fluid showed why) - but it always came back - you hope for the best but I knew as they did the engine was heading on its way out - I'm lucky I have a good dealer - they worked the system went through all the steps and the Motor Company had no choice, they authorized the short block and Stage IV.

The tear down showed a casting problem - which explained the oil leak / transfer - it showed excess oil in the lower from the transfer - they also found some other interesting facts one was the cam wear - the had one spot that had noticeable wear where it was rubbing - the Motor Company asked for all the parts to be shipped back to them - I told them I would have gone with the Stage IV if it had been available and would pay the difference - they agreed - the dealer suggested that I go with the performance exhaust for complete compliance - after some thought - this bike has definitely been flagged if there is another issue I'll want complete compliance so the extended warranty remains intact - I had a friend of mine who works at HD tell me that the 107 Stage's are built to perform to HD performance - that nothing would do more then the HD stuff - I figured what the hell with all I've gone through why not put it to the test so I went with the Stage IV, stayed with he HD Tuner and went with the HD performance exhaust - well the sound is not what the V&H gave but it does bark on the highway - the power is definitely strong with the HD stuff 134HP is a decent number - so now we'll see how long it lasts.

You learn a lot going through this - I do know there is a "fix" in the works that the HD engineers are running it through the system and with final tests / approvals it will be made available on a call / need basis - I wish they would just say what's wrong and do the recalls - but since they are not all failing i guess we will have to go with what they want - if you have a M8 all I can say is watch it - learn how to check the DTC's check the transmission fluid watching for transfer and know the pressure is an issue - starting it upright will definitely be a positive in prevention - just my thoughts - I've attached the dyno for the HD set up - they are getting the performance down - hopefully the engine can take it.....
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Last edited by Laconia; 08-12-2018 at 03:30 PM. Reason: Spelling correction
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 04:12 PM
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TY for sharing Laconia. Sorry to here about the bad motor luck. Look forward to your feedback on your new set up!


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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laconia View Post
I had a engine failure / replacement - I do not usually post but I figured with the many discussions going on about the M8 it may assist you in determining if you are having a problem. I'm going to go from stop to start so it will be a long one. 2017 RGS - Stage III install @ 2800 Miles - V&H PowerDuals

07/29/17 - 2PM Lincoln, NH - on my way to work the HD Demo truck - Pedestrian walked out in front of bike, medically disabled, hit brakes extremely hard, ABS system activated, stopped no collision. I continued to demo truck two or three miles, entering driveway I noticed red oil light on, I was so mad at the individuals that allowed the disabled individual walk into road, I was not looking at the displays - so I'm not sure when light came on, I pulled over, shut down - checked oil levels all ok, temperature normal, bike had run fine. let bike sit talked with HD Tech at truck - could find no issues started bike after working demo truck no issues - Tech agreed that I ride it home (45 miles) keeping an eye on it - did so no issues no lights - checked DTC's ECM gave a PO522 and a BCM of UO184 with the part numbers - the 522 is oil pressure / sending unit and the 184 is lost communication with radio - my thoughts at the time is I hit the brakes so hard it stalled a bit - the momentum kept it running setting the light on.- bike had 5300 miles at the time of incident - dealer had done the 5K service that week. Dealer notified agreed to watch it and bring it in - everything checked out - first oil sending unit was replaced / installed as the thought's were that it was a possible culprit.

8/19/17 - 5Pm - Returning from a 300 mile day trip - 6800K on bike - Oil light came on after I had just made a fuel stop - pulled over shut down - Oil levels all OK, restarted no light - info center showed Oil Pressure OK - Rode forty miles home ran fine - Checked codes ECM showed PO523 / Oil Pressure / Sending Unit - back to dealer 8/20/17 Oil pump replaced / oil sending unit replaced - they found an issue with the other sending unit wires frayed - Dealer felt I should have no further problems - I like the dealer but I told them I felt the engine was gone - but I trusted them in following up and I knew they had steps they were required to follow.

Bike was fine for the rest of the season - excellent power / performance with the stage three, I was apprehensive but hoped issues were over.

05/01/18 Oil dripping from Air Cleaner - had just done the 10K service prior to putting it away for the winter, had been checking the fluids all ok - had put a few hundred on it close to the dealer so I pulled in and had them check the fluids. They checked said all was spot on - I told them I was not comfortable with the pressure issue - but I would keep an eye on it, the M8's have pressure issues and I do my best not to create problems - one of the things I do not do is to start on the Jiffy stand I always start upright - the pick up on the Jiffy stand is questionable and can create some pressure issues. No matter what I did the oil continued to drip - I know HD's have had it for awhile - a little I did not mind but no way did I want oil sucked into the valves - I went with the others and lowered the level a little (½ qt) it improved - still had to carry a napkin and touch the bottom of the cleaner every couple hundred miles.

6/28/18 checked transmission level - nothing showed on dipstick - I was then back to my original thoughts that the engine was on its way out.

6/30/18 13,300 miles after fueling - started - oil light came on and stayed on - shut down checked oil all ok - Codes showed ECM PO522 / PO523 - BCM UO184 - SP UO184 once again the BCM & SP showed it lost commutations - called dealer told them light went on stayed on, I shut down re-started no issues - not sure if ignition failed to make complete contact - who knows - but I still felt major issue with engine - I told them I would bring it in if it happened again.

7/15/18 On ride oil light came on - pulled over shut down - ECM PO522 & PO523 - once again everything OK with the levels no smoke - no isuues - this time on re-start the light stayed on - shut down - let sit - re-start light out ran fine - I called dealer and told them I was on the way in - I told them they needed to tear it down and see what was going on - they agreed I dropped the bike off.

That's a quick synopsis of what took place - there were a couple of other tell tale signs - on one run I had noticed a loss of power - noticed it took a little more effort to shift (checking fluid showed why) - but it always came back - you hope for the best but I knew as they did the engine was heading on its way out - I'm lucky I have a good dealer - they worked the system went through all the steps and the Motor Company had no choice, they authorized the short block and Stage IV.

The tear down showed a casting problem - which explained the oil leak / transfer - it showed excess oil in the lower from the transfer - they also found some other interesting facts one was the cam wear - the had one spot that had noticeable wear where it was rubbing - the Motor Company asked for all the parts to be shipped back to them - I told them I would have gone with the Stage IV if it had been available and would pay the difference - they agreed - the dealer suggested that I go with the performance exhaust for complete compliance - after some thought - this bike has definitely been flagged if there is another issue I'll want complete compliance so the extended warranty remains intact - I had a friend of mine who works at HD tell me that the 107 Stage's are built to perform to HD performance - that nothing would do more then the HD stuff - I figured what the hell with all I've gone through why not put it to the test so I went with the Stage IV, stayed with he HD Tuner and went with the HD performance exhaust - well the sound is not what the V&H gave but it does bark on the highway - the power is definitely strong with the HD stuff 134HP is a decent number - so now we'll see how long it lasts.

You learn a lot going through this - I do know there is a "fix" in the works that the HD engineers are running it through the system and with final tests / approvals it will be made available on a call / need basis - I wish they would just say what's wrong and do the recalls - but since they are not all failing i guess we will have to go with what they want - if you have a M8 all I can say is watch it - learn how to check the DTC's check the transmission fluid watching for transfer and know the pressure is an issue - starting it upright will definitely be a positive in prevention - just my thoughts - I've attached the dyno for the HD set up - they are getting the performance down - hopefully the engine can take it.....

You say there is a "fix" in the works. How do you know this?


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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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Harley Tech told me, said they were in the final test / approval stages - I can only assume what it is so I'll wait to see what they are actually going to do...

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 06:31 PM
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Laconia; thnx for the write up, always good to know what’s going on. Best wishes.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 06:50 PM
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Would love to know what this final fix is.


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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 07:00 PM
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sorry for the troubles you've had, hope everything gets taken care of for you. but i gotta say, if these new engines are so sensitive that you have to stand them upright before starting, then i don't want one.....
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-03-2018, 03:49 PM
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thanks for the heads up, I will be checking my DTC codes, I keep smelling coolant, il levels fine, I have the 114 BB kit that they had when they first came out. Bike runs great but gets extremely hot and fan runs all the time. this is my hottest gharley and I have owned many.

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-03-2018, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laconia View Post
I had a engine failure / replacement - I do not usually post but I figured with the many discussions going on about the M8 it may assist you in determining if you are having a problem. I'm going to go from stop to start so it will be a long one. 2017 RGS - Stage III install @ 2800 Miles - V&H PowerDuals

07/29/17 - 2PM Lincoln, NH - on my way to work the HD Demo truck - Pedestrian walked out in front of bike, medically disabled, hit brakes extremely hard, ABS system activated, stopped no collision. I continued to demo truck two or three miles, entering driveway I noticed red oil light on, I was so mad at the individuals that allowed the disabled individual walk into road, I was not looking at the displays - so I'm not sure when light came on, I pulled over, shut down - checked oil levels all ok, temperature normal, bike had run fine. let bike sit talked with HD Tech at truck - could find no issues started bike after working demo truck no issues - Tech agreed that I ride it home (45 miles) keeping an eye on it - did so no issues no lights - checked DTC's ECM gave a PO522 and a BCM of UO184 with the part numbers - the 522 is oil pressure / sending unit and the 184 is lost communication with radio - my thoughts at the time is I hit the brakes so hard it stalled a bit - the momentum kept it running setting the light on.- bike had 5300 miles at the time of incident - dealer had done the 5K service that week. Dealer notified agreed to watch it and bring it in - everything checked out - first oil sending unit was replaced / installed as the thought's were that it was a possible culprit.

8/19/17 - 5Pm - Returning from a 300 mile day trip - 6800K on bike - Oil light came on after I had just made a fuel stop - pulled over shut down - Oil levels all OK, restarted no light - info center showed Oil Pressure OK - Rode forty miles home ran fine - Checked codes ECM showed PO523 / Oil Pressure / Sending Unit - back to dealer 8/20/17 Oil pump replaced / oil sending unit replaced - they found an issue with the other sending unit wires frayed - Dealer felt I should have no further problems - I like the dealer but I told them I felt the engine was gone - but I trusted them in following up and I knew they had steps they were required to follow.

Bike was fine for the rest of the season - excellent power / performance with the stage three, I was apprehensive but hoped issues were over.

05/01/18 Oil dripping from Air Cleaner - had just done the 10K service prior to putting it away for the winter, had been checking the fluids all ok - had put a few hundred on it close to the dealer so I pulled in and had them check the fluids. They checked said all was spot on - I told them I was not comfortable with the pressure issue - but I would keep an eye on it, the M8's have pressure issues and I do my best not to create problems - one of the things I do not do is to start on the Jiffy stand I always start upright - the pick up on the Jiffy stand is questionable and can create some pressure issues. No matter what I did the oil continued to drip - I know HD's have had it for awhile - a little I did not mind but no way did I want oil sucked into the valves - I went with the others and lowered the level a little (½ qt) it improved - still had to carry a napkin and touch the bottom of the cleaner every couple hundred miles.

6/28/18 checked transmission level - nothing showed on dipstick - I was then back to my original thoughts that the engine was on its way out.

6/30/18 13,300 miles after fueling - started - oil light came on and stayed on - shut down checked oil all ok - Codes showed ECM PO522 / PO523 - BCM UO184 - SP UO184 once again the BCM & SP showed it lost commutations - called dealer told them light went on stayed on, I shut down re-started no issues - not sure if ignition failed to make complete contact - who knows - but I still felt major issue with engine - I told them I would bring it in if it happened again.

7/15/18 On ride oil light came on - pulled over shut down - ECM PO522 & PO523 - once again everything OK with the levels no smoke - no isuues - this time on re-start the light stayed on - shut down - let sit - re-start light out ran fine - I called dealer and told them I was on the way in - I told them they needed to tear it down and see what was going on - they agreed I dropped the bike off.

That's a quick synopsis of what took place - there were a couple of other tell tale signs - on one run I had noticed a loss of power - noticed it took a little more effort to shift (checking fluid showed why) - but it always came back - you hope for the best but I knew as they did the engine was heading on its way out - I'm lucky I have a good dealer - they worked the system went through all the steps and the Motor Company had no choice, they authorized the short block and Stage IV.

The tear down showed a casting problem - which explained the oil leak / transfer - it showed excess oil in the lower from the transfer - they also found some other interesting facts one was the cam wear - the had one spot that had noticeable wear where it was rubbing - the Motor Company asked for all the parts to be shipped back to them - I told them I would have gone with the Stage IV if it had been available and would pay the difference - they agreed - the dealer suggested that I go with the performance exhaust for complete compliance - after some thought - this bike has definitely been flagged if there is another issue I'll want complete compliance so the extended warranty remains intact - I had a friend of mine who works at HD tell me that the 107 Stage's are built to perform to HD performance - that nothing would do more then the HD stuff - I figured what the hell with all I've gone through why not put it to the test so I went with the Stage IV, stayed with he HD Tuner and went with the HD performance exhaust - well the sound is not what the V&H gave but it does bark on the highway - the power is definitely strong with the HD stuff 134HP is a decent number - so now we'll see how long it lasts.

You learn a lot going through this - I do know there is a "fix" in the works that the HD engineers are running it through the system and with final tests / approvals it will be made available on a call / need basis - I wish they would just say what's wrong and do the recalls - but since they are not all failing i guess we will have to go with what they want - if you have a M8 all I can say is watch it - learn how to check the DTC's check the transmission fluid watching for transfer and know the pressure is an issue - starting it upright will definitely be a positive in prevention - just my thoughts - I've attached the dyno for the HD set up - they are getting the performance down - hopefully the engine can take it.....
So is that a 114 or 117 stage 4?

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-03-2018, 10:06 PM
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I have 5000 miles on my 114 big bore. No oil consumption, no oil lights, nothing out of the ordinary but absolute total spark knock all the time on the interstate. It is so loud I can hear it over the radio going down the interstate. There has got to be a reason for it. Extreme heat ? Bad tune ? It’s a piece of shit ? Hell I have no idea but I am about sick of HD motor builds that suck. My 103 HD build was a disaster from the get go.


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