When I bought my CVO back in June I ordered the engine kit for it at the same time and had hope to be riding the bike out to SX IX with the 117" kit but due to it being backordered that didn't happen. As I was leaving SW and was stopping for lunch I got a phone call from the dealership telling me that all the parts were finally here and that I could bring the bike in. But the soonest available date was 28 Aug. But I didn't want to miss out on being able to ride over the long weekend so I scheduled it for 4 Sept.
Well the time is almost here. After my VA appointment on Wednesday morning I'll be dropping the bike off that afternoon at the dealership to get the 117" kit installed along with the new exhaust then hopefully will be picking it up Saturday afternoon. Then when I get back home next week I'll have some Custom Dynamics lights to install. UPS doesn't deliver in my area until late in the afternoon and I have a doctors appointment Tuesday afternoon so by the time I get home it'll be to late to try and get stuff done.
Can't wait to see what the bike is like after the engine kit is installed. I know it isn't going to be GREAT until I do some other work to it but I'm still lookin forward to having it on the bike. I doubt I'll get any of the other engine work done this coming winter but I am planning on yankin the heads off next winter to have head work done and maybe even have the jugs cut down to bring me to a 10.5-8 compression ratio. I don't know if the HD dealer that is doing the install has a dyno or not. If not then before next winter I'll take it to a shop that I know does and have them get some numbers so I have something to compare it with.
That 117" will be a lot of fun - I do recommend that you get it dyno tuned to truly unleash it's performance. Have your exhaust and breather in place prior to tuning
I don't know anything about the tuner you have, but I wouldn't even ride it until it was professionally tuned. You spent a crap load of money on the motor, top it off with a great tune.
The ESP though.....
From my understanding and I could be incorrect on this, with the HD Screaming Eagle Street Performance Tuner they have canned tunes that are loaded on it depending on the modifications done. Then using the Auto Tune module helps it to adjust the tune as much as possible within EPA specifications.
I'll have to check and see if the shop has a dyno or not.
Just guessing here that the tuner will stay within EPA regulations?? If that's the case it will be lean.
If that's what you have to do to keep the warranty then it is what it is.
Yes it has to stay within EPA guidelines. So yes it will run lean compare to an aftermarket tuner but with the auto tuner and wide band O2 sensors it'll be better than just the SESPT. I realize it isn't the best choice but yes according to the dealer who is doing the work I have to use the HD tuner to keep the ESP.
The 117 is a different beast to the 110. The 259E cam produces a noticeable difference, but it sadly isn't spectacular until about 3800 rpm. It's a pretty late cam really, but it does give a considerable amount of pull.
A stock 110 will give you quite a scare off the line due to the 255 cam in it, but you'll reel it in with the rpm.
There's a tonne of info on 110/117 builds and cam choices, so you aren't limited to the stock cam choice if it doesn't impress you.
From all the threads I have read on the 117" with the SE259 the BIGGEST issue is the fact that it doesn't have enough compression. The 259 cam likes the compression ratio to be in the higher 10's which is why I'll get the jugs trimmed to bump it up to 10.5-8:1 compression. But I want to get some miles on the stock kit first so that if anything was done improperly it'll be covered. When I tare the engine in the winter of 2020 I'll see what I think of the 259 cam after it has some good compression. If I am still not happy with it then I'll look at a torque cam as I am not interested in bragging rights about my dyno sheet but am more interested in a good rideable cam.
The 117 is a different beast to the 110. The 259E cam produces a noticeable difference, but it sadly isn't spectacular until about 3800 rpm. It's a pretty late cam really, but it does give a considerable amount of pull.
A stock 110 will give you quite a scare off the line due to the 255 cam in it, but you'll reel it in with the rpm.
There's a tonne of info on 110/117 builds and cam choices, so you aren't limited to the stock cam choice if it doesn't impress you.
Your '15 falls outside of the "Mandated EPA Regulations" and am guessing your dealer is saying you have to run the Street Tuner as that's all they have experience with - The Pro Tuner is gone and many HD shops won't instal anything but the HD Street tuner as that is all they know - Its still a good set up and the #s are good but with a Stage 4, hoping you got a nice 2 into 1 exhaust and opened up that AC - I know the CVO has the "ventilator" AC on it now but if you are going stage 4, I would look at something better to get the most out of the build starting with a Pipe and Intake
I'm not trying to argue with you about this but am trying to understand.
Bikes as old as 2011 had emissions equipment on them. It's always been against federal law to tamper with emissions equipment. While many of us do this isn't what is the issue is here. The issue is if the ESP will be voided if any other tuner is used. The dealer I'm dealing with claims it will. I've heard from other people who say their dealer allowed them to use an aftermarket tuner. But what would happen if I'm on a trip and need it worked on? I'll run the SESPT for the next year and if I have no issues I will cancel the ESP when I do my head work.
Well the bike is at the dealer and they will be running it on the dyno. Can't wait to ride it when it's done.
I'm going with V&H Power Duals which is a 2-1-2 exhaust. They a/c is a larger unit for the bigger engine. It'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers it makes.
Agreed, I'm not expecting great numbers from the 259 cam but we'll see.
Just got off the phone with the service manager and they are also will be doing a dyno breakin run with the bike. So I'll be able to go out and enjoy my new power right away.
If they are breaking the motor in on the dyno, the best way to do it, any problems "Should" happen then. After that its a toss up if anything breaks, except for the world famous Harley lifters.
If you beat the snot out of it of course everything changes
Totally agree from everything I know and have read. Having them do the engine break in on the dyno takes some of the questions out. I'm not one to beat the snot out of it. But my riding season will be over by November if I'm lucky. So I won't get many miles on it before it's parked for the winter. Come spring I'll get some miles on it. Having a warranty for a year after the fact just makes me feel better.
Then as I said before I'm going to yank the head's and jugs next winter and have them port & polished and the jugs cut to bump my CR up to 10.5-8 to get the most out of the 259 cam.
I just picked the bike up from the dealer and got to ride it back to my sister's house. Nice 30 minute ride in Seattle traffic. But overall I'm very happy with the 117" kit and the SESPT. My dyno sheet shows a few dips but the tech said that the only way to get rid of it was a different tuner or a 2-1 exhaust.
I've gotten about 150 miles on it so far and can't say just how much I am really enjoying it. I realize the dips in my torque curve are caused by a few issues. One is running a 2.1.2 exhaust instead of a 2.1 exhaust. Plus the SESPT is also an issue and last is the SE259 cams. From my understanding some of this will be taken care of once I bump the compression ratio up to 10.5-8:1 and the other is when I get a different tuner. Both of these things will happen in the winter of 2020 and be ready for the 2021 riding season.
I don't know anything about that cam or how you ride. Looks good if you like the upper RPMs.
Ride it for a while and make a decision then.
Is the AC crooked in the picture? Or is it the way the picture was taken
Now I am going to have to go outside and take a look see. I don't know if it is the way I took the picture or not.
Doesn't look as crooked in this picture.
It isn't bad off the line and it rips once above 2,200-2,500 RPM's but it does have a dead spot. From all the reading I did prior to having the kit installed it has been stated that the SE259 is a higher RPM cam. For a HD torquer cam the suggestion is the SE585 but I would have had to buy it separate and then try to sell the SE259.
I ride between 2,500-4,000 RPM most of the time with a few times getting above 4K. The engine now will get me to 5K EASY and it's quick but you can not lug the engine. It balks at trying to twist the throttle if I am not watching and it's down around 2,000 RPM's. I'd much rather have it pull from 1,500 RPM's and up.
Over on the CVO forum this has been discussed a lot and one way to wake the SE259 up is to get the compression ratio up to 10.5:1 or above. But I don't want to mess with the engine until next fall so I can get some time & miles on this part.
Developed specifically for throttle body EFI systems, this cam has a modern lobe design that allows for higher valve lifts for a given duration
A high-lift version of the SE-211 camshaft, this cam works great with 103 cubic inch and larger engines with free-flowing intake and exhaust
Can be used with stock heads (updated with race springs) and high-compression pistons for even more torque than a SE-211 cam, or can be coupled with any of the performance heads to realize the full power potential
Here is a short video of the sound of the mufflers. While I like the sound of these mufflers I am not sure if they are what is causing the dip in my torque curve or if it is the tune or tuner? Got some new baffles coming for them to see if they will help any or not.
If you are good with how it runs, that's is all that matters. Doesn't matter what anybody online says You paid the money enjoy it.
As for mufflers there is one on the tech forum. that that tuners show the results over and over and that is the mellows. They don't make them any more but you can fine new old stock. If you want to keep your exhaust, without a indy tune and see if you can get rid of the dip, then mellows are the ones.
I like how dual mufflers sound. A guy a ride with all the time has a S&S 106 kit with head work with V&H true duals and at idle it sounds awesome. He has been all over the US with that setup and it has performed.
All comes down to what YOU want. If your good, ride the hell out of it and enjoy it.
Well to be TOTALLY honest I am NOT happy with the way it rides when I am below 3K rpm's. That hole in my torque curve needs to go NOW. If it is the Khrome Werks mufflers then I'll replace them. Once I get the new baffles I'll see how it does plus I might try a different Dyno shop and see what they can do with it. I'm not 100% convinced it is the SEPST but I am not a tuner guy so I could be wrong.
I wish that there was an independent shop that I could go to and have them try to work on it. I don't know what the person who did this current tune is like and what all he tried. If it's shown that the SE tuner just isn't enough then I'll get an TTS or PV instead.
I get that you have to try to read between the lines when it comes to online comments and wish that some people would just offer up sound advice but we all know that isn't how this works.
I've invested in the 117" kit so now I just need to make it BETTER.
I get it man. Unfortunately this is a problem with dealer kits. So now since you have decided to fix the dip, lets attack that problem. With your wallet not mine, joking.
The suggestion was made to increase compression by a shop and then tune. How about a cam change and then tune? Find one that will fit with what you have, install it then tune. You won't be tearing the motor down at least.
option #1 send cylinders and heads off like you mentioned, get tuned. Do you have the octane out there to support more compression? Never been out there so no idea
option #2 cam change, get tuned
option #3 cam change, thundermax
option #4 cam change power vision from fuel moto.
Obviously there could be more options but this is just a quick list.
Crap weather is around the corner. Ride it as is for the rest of the season and then fix it.
Tons of great cams out there and Im sure you can find one to work with what you have. Seems the bigger issue is getting it tuned? All of it can be worked out
#1 Yes I have the octane to support the increased compression but worry about being places where I can't find 91 or higher octane.
#2 One suggestion on the CVO forum is to use the SE585 cams as they will work with what I have. They don't have the HP numbers up higher but I really couldn't care. I'll be calling Fuel Moto this week to discuss cam choices.
#3 Yes
#4 See #2
I am not going to tare it down until it's too cold to ride then I'll yank it down with a plan. I really think no matter which route I go I'm going to get the heads P&P. Getting the jugs cut to raise the compression will be what I have to decide. I need to talk to a few shops and then go from there.
I hate to dump the SEPST and Auto tune module unless I have no choice. I'd love to keep my ESP but I'll roll the dice if I have no other choice. I'm a stubborn A$$ sometimes and have to prove things to myself even if it costs me more money. So I wanted to give the SE junk a chance.
One thing I was mistaken about is the model of the mufflers that were installed on my bike. I finally got the part numbers from the dealer and checked to see which ones they had ordered. I thought I had the 4" mufflers but come to find out I have the 4.5".
I thought I had 202820 but instead I have 202825. Now what difference that makes I don't know yet.
For a 106 or smaller motor they would be too big. As for a 117 and your setup, better to ask the guy that's going to do the work.
What is your goal with the build? Med to high RPM HP? Bottom end torque? Or something else?
Well after talking to Don at HD Performance and then Bob at Fuel Moto I ordered a Power Vision along with the Target tune for spring when the bike goes back together.
Don is going to P&P the heads and replace the stiff valve springs with dual springs. He's also going to cut the jugs down to give me a 10.6-8:1 compression ratio. At this point once the bike is back together I'll bring the bike over to a tuner in Auburn that he works with and we'll see if the KW mufflers are the issue. If they turn out to be what the problem is then I'll either buy new cans or get the Fullsac cores for the stock CVO mufflers.
So once I get the PV I may just slap the canned tune on the bike to see if it runs any better for the rest of this year.
Thats a good idea, see if the FM map and target tune and get it better.
Good planning on your part getting with your indy and laying it out. Is the plan to keep the cams you have?
So I got the baffles in today and got them installed. Will take it out for a ride over the same road I went on last to see if I notice any difference in the bottom end. I'm not sure if I need to try and have it retuned because of the baffles.
Here is a new video of how it sounds with the baffles installed.
So I didn't ride it yesterday but I had an appointment in Yakima today with my prosthesis to get cast for a new socket. So I left early and rode the same backroads I'd done before.
So I am sure it would be better with a retune but WOW man o man it made a huge difference in how it runs below 3K RPM's. And now in 1st gear when you blip the throttle it wants to rip them out of your hands. So I'm more impressed now and can't wait to get some more seat time. Going to the VA in Seattle on Monday for an appointment and then taking the bike back to the dealer to have the clutch safety switch replaced.
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