Warranty issues with Harley is REAL! - Page 3 - Road Glide Forums
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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Frogprince View Post
When I purchased my 2013 I added the two year warranty to it. From there I kept the bike as stock looking as possible. This meant I used a de-catted header, CVO Slipons and a Stage 1 Intake. Though I did run it with DynoJet.

Now I run a Thundermax ECU. I wonder if you run a separate ECU and had the tuner married to it and just swapped back when it was in for at the shop would they be able to detect it. Granted this would only work for basic stage 1 kits...
I just noticed you asked/suggested the same thing I did...ha... still curious.
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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 01:09 PM
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Im sure somebody may file a lawsuit if things dont change.
I think if the affected group could find a willing (and greedy enough law firm) there might be grounds for a class action suit. No way someone could go solo on this and have any hope of changing the status quo. From my perspective, Harley and/or the EPA are really stretching that particular part of the compliance clause. I don't see any way a tuner causes sumping, just like I don't see any way that a tuner causes lubricant migration between the transmission and primary. Those are both design, quality and/or manufacturing issues inherent in the motor. Nothing to do with sumping as I see it.......................

But you can be danged sure that Harley is avoiding tens of thousands of dollars in warranty claims just for those two issues alone by complying with the terms of the EPA settlement.

If fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Harley didn't write the warranty compliance clauses and insist that the EPA include them in the decree. As I see it, we've all been out-played.


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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dieselshadow View Post
No more new HDs for me.... too damn expensive, pay even more to get the bike where it should have come from the factory, then lose the warranty with known issues.
True statement.
The Company that built a new engine that can't confine oil into its correct location wants to bristle up over a plug and play tuner.
I think I know why.
In my industry, we build substantial margin into components for reliability.
It costs a lot of money to "over design".

If you're a major US manufacturer and can cut some alloy use here or there and make the original design reliable (cheaper and lighter) - why not?
If your consumers want to add 40 HP, that margin is gone and they're now riding a beautifully painted machine on the verge of cyclic fatigue failure at an expensive lower end location - the grisly carnage soon to be posted on RoadGlide.org.

So guess what. Harley says "no tuners" or "our schitty tuners" are your options.
Camshafts will follow. No end.

I'll guess some manufacturers have not sacrificed margin.
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wevsspot View Post
I think if the affected group could find a willing (and greedy enough law firm) there might be grounds for a class action suit.
Call a lawyer.
A true badass move.
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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gkt33 View Post
Hi everyone!
I don't know if you have visited your local dealership lately but the ones in my area have begun posting warnings around the parts and service areas about installing tuners "other than the harley tuners", WILL void your warranty!
I say this to share a situation that happened to me within the past month.
I'm fairly well known within a few of the dealerships near me. I bought my CVO back in December 17. I generally do all of my own maintenance and upgrades. Because of work and weather, I really haven't been able to ride much so when I did ride, they were short, 20 miles or less.
About a month ago, some friends and I took a 70 mile ride to New Orleans. Nothing crazy, about 75 degrees, great day for a ride. After 1 hour, the bike began to lose power, and the back cylinder began to get hot. (The dreaded sumping symptoms) Made it to the local dealership and sat there 1 hour. Started the bike and headed home, no issues. Within 1 hour of the ride back, same issues reappear. I'm now furious, take the bike straight to my local dealership. The bike has 3700 miles on it and six months of warranty left.
Two weeks prior to this incident I added some SVT Boneshakers, LA 47 bars, the new spoiler that comes on the 19's, cam kit with the SE515 cam, and a Power Vision tuner thru this dealership! The cam kit had not been installed and I had only been playing around with the tuner checking out how it worked. No engine mods had been done prior.
I told them the symptoms and I'm well aware of what they indicated, and so we're they. The first question they asked was, " have you hooked it up to your tuner yet?" Of course was my response. The next day I was informed that when they hooked up the bike for a diagnosis, harley flaged the the vin, thus voiding the warranty. Just like that.
Even though I have not married the tuner to the bike and made sure to flash the original tune back on it, they can still detect if a tuner has been used. I was informed by the service manager that harley employs people who do nothing else but read diagnostics to insure you have not used an aftermarket tuner. Now the company knows that they have an oil pump issue with the 2017/18 M8 engine. But are only offering a fix of an upgraded SE pump as a fix and only if symptoms have appeared, and you aren't using an aftermarket tuner. (Lol)
Luckily my relationship with the dealership saved me. I bought the S & S camplate and pump myself, swapped to a Woods cam, and they installed it for free to save face. But the warranty is still voided.
Harley Davidson WILL void your warranty if you use an aftermarket tuner before the end of your warranty period!
same thing will happen on any motor vehicle or equipment with an internal combustion engine. Its not just Harley I dont understand why people dog on Harley for this?? If you buy a new Diesel Pickup and change the exhaust, delete the DPF ect warranty will be void

tampering with anything on engines that can change emissions is technically illegal for on road use, hence why all the manufactures of aftermarket components all say for race only


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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 02:16 PM
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The H-D EPA settlement does not stipulate it has to be a H-D tuner. It stipulates an EPA compliant turner. It just happens the only manufacturer of one is H-D. You can get mad at the other manufacturers or be greatful H-D makes one. Or just wait until warranty is up or do not worry about the warranty.

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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 03:30 PM
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And I don't understand the disconnect here..........

50% of the population jumps on a poor soul that finds out the bad news after the fact, even if the warranty failure in the drive train couldn't possibly have anything to do with an aftermarket tuner. Take my lubricant migration example, how in the hell does a tuner cause transmission fluid to migrate to the primary? Answer, it doesn't because it can't. But Harley won't fix that problem under warranty because you used a "non EPA compliant tuner". That's bullshiz.................. But it sure is an easy way for them to get out of paying for the repair of an issue that they know full well exists and doesn't have anything to do with using aftermarket parts or tuners. Here's the section right out of the consent decree;

14. Denial of Warranty.
a. Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of
powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle (Model Year
2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any Defendants have any
information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product
that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise
7
Case 1:16-cv-01687-EGS Document 6-1 Filed 07/20/17 Page 9 of 33
approved by EPA.
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 07:50 PM
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I agree with most of the statements made here but the one thing that really needs to be addressed is the elephant in the room, the sumping issue and unacceptable engine failures, some dealers like the one near me play stupid and act like this is not even happening, the buyer market is changing and his is driving more new buyers away IMO. As Diesel shadow stated here I think I will also keep my 2011 Twin Cam, prices are out of control. And yes some people within the company need to be shit canned.
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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Road dawg View Post
I agree with most of the statements made here but the one thing that really needs to be addressed is the elephant in the room, the sumping issue and unacceptable engine failures, some dealers like the one near me play stupid and act like this is not even happening, the buyer market is changing and his is driving more new buyers away IMO. As Diesel shadow stated here I think I will also keep my 2011 Twin Cam, prices are out of control. And yes some people within the company need to be shit canned.
Well said.

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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Road dawg View Post
I agree with most of the statements made here but the one thing that really needs to be addressed is the elephant in the room, the sumping issue and unacceptable engine failures, some dealers like the one near me play stupid and act like this is not even happening, the buyer market is changing and his is driving more new buyers away IMO. As Diesel shadow stated here I think I will also keep my 2011 Twin Cam, prices are out of control. And yes some people within the company need to be shit canned.
In agreement x100

In the back of my mind I can't help but think that HD's totalitarian approach to this is ridiculous. I didn't read any where in the decree where the EPA mandated that HD electronically monitor compliance via ECM reporting back the mothership. It could have been kept simple - dealer inspects for the physical presence of an aftermarket tuner, or simple check to ensure that the OEM tune file was intact and that the ECM calibration being used at the time of service (warranty or otherwise) was the factory original. Hooking our sleds up to the DT and having it flag for ECM changes that may or may not even be in use any more is just an easy way for HD to avoid warranty expenses for known defects. That's my conspiracy theory anyway.

Even worse - dealerships in late '17 through mid - '18 telling people that they would "take care" of any issues after selling the customer $2500 or more dollars of performance upgrades (non-EPA compliant aftermarket stuff, like headers, slip ons, air cleaners, flash tunes etc.).
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