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post #71 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Road dawg View Post
So I guess what your saying is we are better off with our older Roadglides? Seems like the MoCo is really going to tie your hands on proper tuning, at least what we consider proper tuning? If so that really sucks. Hopefully someone finds a way around this. Now I am even happier I kept my 2011.
Yes and no, just depends on how you went on the tuner. You can still pretty much do what ever you want with it, just not with a MoCo tuner. And its not like the MoCo hasn't walked away from blown motors when they saw race tuners had been used to flash the ecm. But now the implied threat is they will walk away from any powertrain defect because of an unapproved tuner.

Now here the thing. The EPA never stopped sniffing around the tampering issues. They have an open file and CARB and the US Park Service are both on board. The Park service is trying to get funding to train its people to use sound testing equipment. They want the loud pipes out of the parks. So its not only gas emissions, its noise too.
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post #72 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by V-man View Post
It seems the new strategy is stock except for slip-ons until warranty is over, then aftermarket warranty (or not) and Indie for tuning and/or performance upgrades.

At least that's what I'm told... even by the honest/knowledgeable techs at some of the dealers.

Imo this is gonna hurt the Moco's bottom line no matter how ya slice it.
If Trump looses in 2020, there is going to be a shakeup in the motor vehicle world the likes of which have never been seen. And that future most likely does not have hot rod Harleys in it. Look for E15, 40mpg fleet averages, and restrictions on light truck fuel sources. That's what the EPA was ready to roll out if 2016 had gone differently.

Their tier 2 was E25, and 42Mpg with fuel restrictions expanded to heavy trucks.

Trump rolled back what the EPA had already introduced. But it might not be politically feasible to continue down that path.


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post #73 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 10:00 PM
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Holy shit! That's serious stuff, sound meters too, knew they were around for a while troopers here for a time were using them to give out violations, and my buddy in Florida sees that quite a bit. Something to keep a close eye on.

When all else fails, hell there is always beer!
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post #74 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 12:59 AM
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My 11 is my second EFI bike , first EFI was the 08 RG .. Always said I was keeping the '11 and not buying newer ..

Carb conversion looks better some days , but the EFI is nice .. Now if I had the spare pennies laying around to find another Tour Glide ..................

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post #75 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Thermodyne View Post
If Trump looses in 2020, there is going to be a shakeup in the motor vehicle world the likes of which have never been seen. And that future most likely does not have hot rod Harleys in it. Look for E15, 40mpg fleet averages, and restrictions on light truck fuel sources. That's what the EPA was ready to roll out if 2016 had gone differently.

Their tier 2 was E25, and 42Mpg with fuel restrictions expanded to heavy trucks.

Trump rolled back what the EPA had already introduced. But it might not be politically feasible to continue down that path.
I read an article a couple of years ago that that mostly the auto manufacturers had an issue with the E15/25 requirement. Supposedly they stated the older/current models are not designed to handle those requirements and those vehicles where/are still under warranty. They also voiced their opinion that even old vehicles could not handle those requirements. If that is correct, would fuel manufacturers have to make both types of fuel to ensure older vehicles would not be damaged ?

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post #76 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Thermodyne View Post
If Trump looses in 2020, there is going to be a shakeup in the motor vehicle world the likes of which have never been seen. And that future most likely does not have hot rod Harleys in it. Look for E15, 40mpg fleet averages, and restrictions on light truck fuel sources. That's what the EPA was ready to roll out if 2016 had gone differently.

Their tier 2 was E25, and 42Mpg with fuel restrictions expanded to heavy trucks.

Trump rolled back what the EPA had already introduced. But it might not be politically feasible to continue down that path.
What most don't realize, is that those restrictions were rolled into the Auto bailouts, by the heavy handed actions of the obama administration.
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post #77 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FLTRXS18 View Post
I read an article a couple of years ago that that mostly the auto manufacturers had an issue with the E15/25 requirement. Supposedly they stated the older/current models are not designed to handle those requirements and those vehicles where/are still under warranty. They also voiced their opinion that even old vehicles could not handle those requirements. If that is correct, would fuel manufacturers have to make both types of fuel to ensure older vehicles would not be damaged ?
All the gov does is mandate E25 for new light vehicles. The rest takes care of itself.

As demand for E25 goes up, the cost comes down. As demand for E10 goes down, the cost goes up. And at some level a tipping point is reached, it will no longer be profitable to supply E10 at the pump. Blender pumps will extend the life of E10, so long as the base fuel is E10. The moment the refineries decide to ship base fuel as E15 or E25, then the E10 is gone.

The factories were actually complaining about energy density (lack of) and the increased fuel economy standard. Basically needing more miles from fuel that will deliver less. As far as the existing vehicles, the technology to burn E85 as flex fuel pretty much says any vehicle can burn E25. Its just an issue of injector capacity and mapping, and perhaps a regulator and odd pieces. The end user would be faced with installing an E25 kit in his 17 mpg suv, turning it into a 11 mpg suv, or buying a new 40 mpg vehicle. And the epa smiles all the way to it next update of the standards.


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post #78 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 11:46 AM
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As usual, the devil's in the details....just something I wanted to throw out there:
Quote:
The definition of the powertrain in this instance pertains to the engine and all of its components, including the ECM (Engine Control Module), primary drive and transmission including all of its components.

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post #79 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gkt33 View Post
Gotta save the original map and upload back to the bike before taking it to the dealer.
I think I heard that they will know if it was Mapped by a different tuner anyways.. think the ECM will keep a log. ( big brother using tech) Since most of these device "marry" the bike guess there is a way to tell what flashed what and when..

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post #80 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 04:30 PM
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Nevermind
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