Data Dump: Audio Thoughts, Opinions, & Experience Welcome - Road Glide Forums
Audio List your speakers and audio solutions for the roadglide.

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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Data Dump: Audio Thoughts, Opinions, & Experience Welcome

Audio, where to begin...
The largest pebble in my boot at the moment is cruising for an icehouse and straining to hear Earl Dibbles tell me about widdlin sticks and packing a good dip. A buzz kill to say the least, but we're straying from the point. The stock radio sucks, it blows, it's garbage for anything past 15-mph or 1/2 volume if you ask me. My pipes don't help but like hell I'll take them off for the stock mufflers, so what do you do. Upgrade! Get more obnoxiously loud for the Prius texting in the fast lane going 55. No offense Prius owners, your easy to pick on. Upon this realization I finally joined ye ole forum after reading all the fantastic advice on which route to take and what options are tried and true. So much so, that it didn't take long to get overwhelmed with information on amps, speakers, leveling, wire gauging, wire routing, cable management, amp mounting, antenna reception, gille fitment, ohms & amps, flashing, gain, tips, Good Lord the list is infinite. All being said my goal with this post is to corral the best of the best suggestions here to make an informed decision on upgrading my baby cakes. In addition to recollecting what's been found I'd like to provide cost effective links for purchase and the tidbits of information deemed useful for anybody in the same situation. Please, if you've taken the time to read this far drop suggestions, comments, corrections, and ideas below for the benefit of the community looking to upgrade audio!

**Below is a WIP, wife needs attention so signing out 12.5.17**
**Will build thread with more misc. information, links, and options in time**
**Please share your thoughts and suggestions below!**

Speakers, commonly sized 6.5" in shark fairing
Arc Moto 602 V2 - $379
Moto 602 V2*| Arc Audio
Sensitivity - 88dB | RMS - 90 Watts | Peak - 160 Watts | 4ohm

JL Audio C3-650 6-3/4 - $349.95
https://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-C3-6.../dp/B003WMCLFA
Sensitivity - 93dB | RMS - 75 Watts | Peak - 150 Watts | 4ohm

Biketronics TITAN II 6.5" - $299.95
1996-2013 Titan II 6.5" upgrade - Biketronics Inc
Sensitivity - n.a.dB | RMS - 100 Watts | Peak - 200 Watts | 4ohm

AD-CX62 - $279
CX62 - 2000 SERIES - 6 1/2" Hi-End Coaxial
Sensitivity - n.a.dB | RMS - 100 Watts | Peak - n.a. Watts | n.a.ohm

HERTZ HCX 165 6.5" - $144.50
https://www.amazon.com/HERTZ-Hi-Ener.../dp/B003VCK7WK
Sensitivity - 92dB | RMS - 100 Watts | Peak - 200 Watts | 4ohm

Infinity Kappa 62.11 - $87
https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Kapp...=kappa+speaker
Sensitivity - 95dB | RMS - 75 Watts | Peak - 225 Watts | 2ohm

Digital Designs Ex6.5 - $79
http://ddaudio.com/products/car-spea...nt-sets/ex6-5/
Sensitivity - n.a.dB | RMS - n.a. Watts | Peak - n.a. Watts | 4ohm

I'll end this section by saying speakers are Plentiful! There are tons and tons on the market and choosing the right one in your price range can be tricky. Amongst other things you want A, to make sure your speakers will hold up to the elements, ie. durable and non porous cone to keep moisture out of your fairing. And B, a speaker with high "sensitivity" paired with appropriate wattage from your amp. What's that? Glad you asked take a look here,
https://www.lifewire.com/speaker-sensitivity-3134850
The higher the sensitivity rating of a speaker, the louder it will play with a certain amount of wattage. For example, some speakers have a sensitivity around 81 dB or so. This means with one watt of power, they'll deliver just a moderate listening level. Want 84 dB? You'll need two watts – this is due to the fact that every additional 3 dB of volume requires double the power. Want to hit some nice and loud 102 dB peaks in your home theater system?
You'll need 128 watts.
Sensitivity measurements of 88 dB is about average. Anything below 84 dB is considered rather poor sensitivity. Sensitivity of 92 dB or higher is very good and should be sought after.
Keeping all this in mind take another look at the list above, these are tried speakers from presumably real end user clients on this forum. I have read good rapport about those mentioned above and should be seriously considered. Being said, fire up the Google machine and have fun hunting for your set-up!
http://www.toptenreviews.com/home/au...rine-speakers/
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-v3FLj3...ers.html?&pg=1
https://stereochamp.com/best-marine-speakers-reviews/
http://www.outeraudio.com/best-marine-speakers/



Lid Speakers, commonly sized 6.9" in standard lids
Infinity Kappa 6.9 - $108.27
https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Kapp...=kappa+speaker



Amplifiers
Arc Audio MOTO 600.4 (4 Channels, 600W) - $639.99
https://www.amazon.com/MOTO-600-4-4-.../dp/B016P9DM9A

Titan Power Amps - $449.95+
Amp & Speakers - Page 2 - Biketronics Inc

Arc Audio Ks 125.2 Mini - $359.99
https://www.amazon.com/Ks-125-2-Mini.../dp/B001NXYWVQ

Diamond Audio Micro 2v2 - $299
https://www.sinistersound.net/shop/c...-x29800742.htm

JL Audio HX280/4 - $199.99
https://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-Moto.../dp/B012ZNVTKO

Rockford Fosgate PBR300X2 - $179.46
https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosg.../dp/B007AQ2WXU

Cerwin-Vega B54 Stealth Bomber (4 Channels, 500W) - $175.49
https://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-B...vega+amplifier

Cerwin-Vega B52 Stealth Bomber (2 Channels, 500W) - $134.33
https://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-B...vega+amplifier

Power Acoustik RZ4-1200D - $93.99
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Acousti.../dp/B0072L7XSM

Oh Jeez! That's alot of options! How do you choose the right amplifier to power your speaker selection?!? Take a look here
https://www.lifewire.com/power-neede...eakers-3134849
You'll note that a comfortable 0-mph listening level is about 102db. Now, to calculate what amp is right for your speaker, first note the sensitivity of the speaker or efficiency of your speaker. That figure should be decibels per 1 watt of power. Now calculate that each additional 3dB requires 2x the power. So looking at a forum favorite Arc Moto 602, 1Watt would produce 90db, 2 Watts - 93dB, 4 Watts - 96dB, 8 Watts - 99dB, 16 Watts 101dB, 32 Watts - 104dB and so forth. So what you'll need is an amplifier capable of delivering 32 watts to that speaker. Of course, no one makes a 32-watt amp, but a 40- or 50-watt amplifier should do fine. If the amp or receiver you want puts out, say, 100 watts, don't worry about it. Remember, at average listening levels with typical speakers, any amp is putting out only about 1 watt, anyway. Of course for 80mph freeway speeds you're going to want a higher dB capacity and amp with corresponding power.



Line Leveling/ Flashing
Biketronics BT355 - $79.95
BT355 HD Radio Line Leveler And Pre-Amp Adapter for 2014 and Up - Biketronics Inc

Metra TC-LOC2 - $14.99
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/metra-t...?skuId=1265702

PAC SNI-35 "Black Box?" - $8.78
https://www.amazon.com/PAC-SNI-35-Va...eywords=SNI-35

Flashing,
Reason for line levelers from @wevsspot
If you already have the correct .bin file for 4 speakers (with fader control) you would probably want to wait on the flash and see what you can achieve by tuning the AMP. Apparently the dealer flash is hit and miss and as many people have screwed stuff up as they have fixed stuff by letting the dealer flash the firmware.
Apparently there are so many options in there with the HDTech software, coupled with a lack of knowledge/experience at the dealerships it has been a real crap shoot. Add to that the HDTech options seem to change with every software update things have become a real mess.
That is why so many users have just gone straight to the BT355 LOC from Biketronics. Bill and his team have done a fine job filtering out the crap that creates distortion after amplification. According to Bill they use a triple filtering system and then allow the end user to adjust both the gain and HPF filter on each channel. Although the units come preset from Bill after hours of research on semi-optimal settings that appear to work well with the majority of bikes regardless of AMP and software combination.
Continued notes,
AMPs do not have high level inputs and the stock Harley radios only have high level outputs (no RCA out). So you have to have a way to convert your head unit high level outputs to an amp low level input. The Biketronics (and other line converters) do this. The BT units are unique in that they have adjustable gain and frequency pots that condition the audio signal coming from the head unit so that it sounds better when the audio comes out of your AMP.
Continued notes,
With the BT355 you can leave the AMP setting at Full Pass and the Biketronics Line Out Converter takes care of the filtering. If you want to use any other LOC, you might need to use the HPF setting on the AMP and tune accordingly.


and @09Sharknose
The stock head unit already has an internal amplifier. Just like any amplifier, it amplifies EVERYTHING that comes through it and sends it to the speakers. So if you have a crappy source, or are planning crappy quality music to start with, it's gonna sound like amplified crap coming out. Also, if you take that crappy signal and send it in to an aftermarket amp that's pumping 100w/ch, you're reamplifying a signal with all of the crap still attached to it. This is the problem that having RCA (pre out) jacks on your head unit solves. The signal is sent out BEFORE the head unit amplifies it. HD will not put preouts on their head units.
Think about how an old vinyl record sounded with the static and such. Then consider amplifying that signal. That's what's happening when you use high level(speaker line) outputs from your head unit to your aftermarket amp.
A line level converter or "magic box" takes the amplified signal and strips the distortion and amplification from it. Kind of an aftermarket preamp kit. This gives your aftermarket amp a clean signal to amplify, resulting in a much more clear sounding stereo assuming your speakers are quality.




Installation Kits
Rockford Fosgate Amplifier Installation Kit - $149.99
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/rfkhd/
Mounting plate, heatsink, and wiring kit for installing compact Punch and Power series amplifiers

ARC plug and play Adapter Harness - $45
2014+ HD Adapter Harness*| Arc Audio

NVX True Spec 4 Gauge - $54.99
https://www.amazon.com/NVX-Copper-Si.../dp/B008UXXL46

BOSS Audio KIT 8 Gauge - $14.99 | 4 Gauge - $21.18 | 10 Gauge $9.01
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._rd_i=10981611
Found kind of last minute, looks to be a nice complete wiring kit, may not be top quality but for the price not bad!



Budget Builds
Big Thanks @dozer23
AMP
JL Audio HX280/4
https://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-Moto.../dp/B012ZNVTKO
Speakers
Biketronics TITAN II 6.5"
1996-2013 Titan II 6.5" upgrade - Biketronics Inc
Line Leveler
Biketronics BT355
BT355 HD Radio Line Leveler And Pre-Amp Adapter for 2014 and Up - Biketronics Inc
Wire Kit
NVX True Spec 4 Gauge
https://www.amazon.com/NVX-Copper-Si.../dp/B008UXXL46

Total: $634.88

Big Thanks @wevsspot
AMP
Cerwin Vega B2 Stealth Bomber (updated to B52)
https://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-B...vega+amplifier
Speakers
Infinity Kappa 62.11I
https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Kapp...=kappa+speaker
Line Leveler
Biketronics BT355
BT355 HD Radio Line Leveler And Pre-Amp Adapter for 2014 and Up - Biketronics Inc

Total: $301.28 + Wiring kit +/-$30



Package Deals
M.P.A.K. 12 - $1,099
(Moto 600.4, ARC Audio Moto Series V2, wiring)
M.P.A.K. 12*| Arc Audio

J&M Rokker - $1,029.99+
Harley Davidson Boom! - $799.95+
Hogtunes - $469.95+
https://www.jmcorp.com/SeeProducts.asp?PF=55
https://www.harley-davidson.com/shop/boom-audio
Complete Kits 14+ | Hogtunes
Note: It's been debated throughout the forums that for the money spent on Rokker, Boom!, or hogtunes products, a more powerful/ quality set-up could be put together. While they are prominent figures online and in the industry these packages may be right for some and not for others. Do your research! For these reasons Hogtunes, Boom!, and J&M individual and kit products have been excluded from the above in lieu of mix 'n match systems.

'16 FLTRXS, SE HBElite, Fuel Moto Jackpot Superduals 2-1-2, Fuel Moto 4" Dyno Mufflers, Fuel Moto Canned PowerVision, Klock Werks, 14" Mini-apes & Misc...

Last edited by DeathProof; 12-07-2017 at 03:49 PM.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Loose Leaf Information
General/CV amp tuning, note tuning below is only Needed when running without BT355 LOC. Although tune after BT355 shouldn't hurt, you may or may not improve sound quality. If using another LOC than the BT355 you'll likely want to follow one of the tuning paths below. Thanks again, @wevsspot
Set Crossover to High Pass
Set Frequency Adjustment to 100-120Hz
Set Gain to 30% (around 9 oclock position)
Set radio volume to 3/4 high (13 clicks out of 17 clicks)
Start tuning from there using either your ears, by voltage using a multi-meter or by sine wave using an oscilloscope.


Arc Setup Tuning from @Bullshark
On the newer bikes we recommend NOT re-flashing the stock radio as the new firmware that is out there shuts of the speaker outputs if the radio doesn’t see the corresponding amplifier.
The stock tune has an 18dB bump at 105-110hZ and also a 22dB bump at 90Hz… The key thing to keep this from sending that radio into a clip frenzy sending clipped signal to the amplifier is to do the following-
1) Set the crossover HP at 120Hz. (As it is a 24dB per octave slope it takes a good bump out of the peak and helps minimize the possible extension clipping at high volume while leaving a relatively smooth ‘mac 4dB per step bump at 100Hz’ response at the bottom end.
2) Turn off the AVC on the factory radio
3) Bass and Treble settings to no exceed 50% of the total range on the deck.


Equipment needed for wiring Cerein Vega Amp, Thanks @wevsspot
1. 8 or 10 gauge positive wire for running power from battery to AMP
2. In line fuse for power wire from battery to AMP (40A to 50A)
3. 8 or 10 gauge negative wire for ground. Termination point of this ground wire has been debated ranging from connecting to the frame fairing mount, directly to the negative lead of the battery or the whole system common ground point near the battery. On mine I terminated the ground wire at the whole system common ground point near the battery.
4. 18 to 20 gauge remote turn on wire
5. Line out converter (converts the high level speaker outputs from the head unit to RCA low level inputs for the AMP) I recommend the Biketronics BT355 if you can swing it.
6. 2-4' RCA cable for connecting line out converter to the AMP
7. Some extra speaker wire to go from AMP to speakers
Not sure if you're replacing speakers as well, but if so you may need compatible terminals so you can connect your speaker wires to the speakers. The Harley terminals are designed specifically for the Harley speakers.
Depending on how (or if) you plan to do any splicing you'll need some type of crimp terminals or a solder iron and heat shrink tubing.
If you are going to connect your remote turn on wire to another switch powered wire (the cigarette lighter for example) you'll need a t-type terminal or some other method of joining the wires.
There are some suppliers who offer complete AMP install wiring kits and depending on which one you get they are only marginally more expensive than buying the parts and pieces individually.


Faraday Cages
Extreme amplifier interference with internal antennas may warrant a Faraday cage to separate components. Likely not necessary but may be beneficial in some instances.



DISCLAIMER (kind of, not really)
Please use good judgement and do your research, I am by no means an expert and nor myself or any contributing members to this thread want to or will be held liable for your mistakes. Being said @sloride , @beatlesfab4fan , @dozer23 , @wevsspot , and many others have popped up often times over my searching and provide excellent information along with many others on this site. Ride safe fellas!

'16 FLTRXS, SE HBElite, Fuel Moto Jackpot Superduals 2-1-2, Fuel Moto 4" Dyno Mufflers, Fuel Moto Canned PowerVision, Klock Werks, 14" Mini-apes & Misc...

Last edited by DeathProof; 12-07-2017 at 03:10 PM.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:41 PM
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Posting for original poster, @ChromeSpark

@ChromeSpark posted on 12/6/17:

Are you going for DIY or take to a shop? If going to a shop try No Cage Audio, I think he's only doing them in his shop? https://www.roadglide.org/53-audio/33...g-systems.html
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:43 PM
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Posting for original poster, WTFranz

@WTFranz posted on 12/6/17:

@DeathProof Maybe add this Install kit from RF as it has the OEM connectors, mounting hardware and HQ power cable.

Harley-Davidson® Amplifier Installation Kit (1998+) | Rockford Fosgate ®
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:45 PM
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@DeathProof posted on 12/6/17

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeSpark View Post
Are you going for DIY or take to a shop? If going to a shop try No Cage Audio, I think he's only doing them in his shop? https://www.roadglide.org/53-audio/33...g-systems.html
With a kiddo on the way I'll be piecing together upgrade that won't break the bank... Whiiiich rules out shops for the most part. I enjoy tinkering anyways, so if it wasn't a factor I'd still probably DIY. Dallas is just a hop, skip, and a jump up the road and I believe I read he has a forum discount which may warrant the drive for the components. Still indecisive and wanted to collect information, thought someone else may benefit from my findings in a one place

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFranz View Post
@DeathProof Maybe add this Install kit from RF as it has the OEM connectors, mounting hardware and HQ power cable.

Harley-Davidson® Amplifier Installation Kit (1998+) | Rockford Fosgate ®
Awesome suggestion, adding it to the list!
Looks like the kit is still dependant on a flash or LOC of some sort though right?
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@WTFranz posted on 12/6/17

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathProof View Post
Looks like the kit is still dependant on a flash or LOC of some sort though right?
Correct, Just one of the better install kits I have seen for a Plug and Play solution. I have it on order now, let ya know once I complete the install. I think I'm going to go with adding the Line Leveler but struggle with why Biketronics is 3x more money than the others.
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@DeathProof posted on 12/6/17

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFranz View Post
Correct, Just one of the better install kits I have seen for a Plug and Play solution. I have it on order now, let ya know once I complete the install. I think I'm going to go with adding the Line Leveler but struggle with why Biketronics is 3x more money than the others.
When I started my research I did also. Still I'm not exactly sure how it's better but I'll do my best to explain and hope a resident expert chimes in. I understand that the purpose of a line leveler is to convert high level speaker head unit outputs to low level RCAs which your aftermarket amp can accept. Inside that magical yellow box is hours of tuning and tweaking which levels out the equalizer curve by removing distortion and headunit/factory internal amp amplification to allow your amplifer to amplify a more pure sound. Amp. The benefit of the BT355 is the quality of signal after leaving the LOC which from cheaper models isn't as good but sufficient with the addition of amplifier tuning.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:49 PM
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@roadie13 posted on 12/6/17

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFranz View Post
Correct, Just one of the better install kits I have seen for a Plug and Play solution. I have it on order now, let ya know once I complete the install. I think I'm going to go with adding the Line Leveler but struggle with why Biketronics is 3x more money than the others.


The BT 355 flattens the badly distorted signal coming from the HU. It’s not perfect, but the default settings are pretty dang good for most setups. They are well worth the money.

A well setup DSP is the best answer, but for those not willing to spend that kind of coin or intimidated by the learning curve for some of the available DSPs, the BT line leveler is the easiest answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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[Admin Note]

Posts #3 through #8 are posts that have been copied and pasted from the original thread which was deleted. Sorry for any confusion - just trying to preserve the chronology.
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What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about?
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