Are my mufflers and head pipe really that sucky??/ - Road Glide Forums
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Are my mufflers and head pipe really that sucky??/

So i've been doing quite a bit of research on upgrades for my 18 Road glide special. I have Bassani True Dual head pipes and V&H 450 Destroyer 4.5" slip on's with stage one SE air cleaner. I have the dyno sheet for this set up highlighted in red.
After talking to Fuelmoto, they insured me that my exhaust set up is one of the worst possible for performance on the M8, even though it looks and sounds good, lol.
Looking at what i want to do, (Woods 22x cams (i like low rpm tq and hp), and new exhaust, which would be the Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe into the Jackpot Outlaw slip on's) i found a dyno sheet from Fuelmoto that compares my current set up to the new one.
My question is.... is this for real??? Wow... my set up currently is terrible. Look at the huge gap in TQ alone at 2500 rpm of 18!!!
Would this be a reasonable expectation using the Fuelmoto premapped Power Vision tuner or would i need to get it dynoed...

Looks like about $1650 shipped for everything...If these could be my results than it would be a no brainer???
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 04:06 PM
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Tru Duals are your issue - They look and Sound amazing but were never designed with performance in mind........is my .02

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SteadyEddie View Post
Tru Duals are your issue - They look and Sound amazing but were never designed with performance in mind........is my .02
This is what i'm seeing. Also noticing that the fat 4.5" slip on's are really flat off the start (2500-3000 range) compared to other slip on's like the Outlaw mufflers. Mine have the packing removed and don't think they have much back pressure compared to the Outlaws with the insert installed.

My fear is that this new set up will sound weak....lol. I like loud. Hard to tell on Youtube, but seems that the outlaws have some decent "Harley" sound to them.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadglideJ View Post
So i've been doing quite a bit of research on upgrades for my 18 Road glide special. I have Bassani True Dual head pipes and V&H 450 Destroyer 4.5" slip on's with stage one SE air cleaner. I have the dyno sheet for this set up highlighted in red.

After talking to Fuelmoto, they insured me that my exhaust set up is one of the worst possible for performance on the M8, even though it looks and sounds good, lol.

Looking at what i want to do, (Woods 22x cams (i like low rpm tq and hp), and new exhaust, which would be the Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe into the Jackpot Outlaw slip on's) i found a dyno sheet from Fuelmoto that compares my current set up to the new one.

My question is.... is this for real??? Wow... my set up currently is terrible. Look at the huge gap in TQ alone at 2500 rpm of 18!!!

Would this be a reasonable expectation using the Fuelmoto premapped Power Vision tuner or would i need to get it dynoed...



Looks like about $1650 shipped for everything...If these could be my results than it would be a no brainer???
In short yes. I have true duals with v&h 450. I posted my results if you search in this section. 107" stage 2 true duals. I added the Thunder Torque Inserts. They work on the true duals. U can actually install them on the v&h 450 so there is no external drilling on the pipe. Just modify the baffle. Madmat has tried them as well with good results as far as I know. I am pulling 120 torque. Not over 100hp but all my torque is low. I could get it over 100 by opening up the TTI's but I like where my torque is at.
I included my setup. Running the Andrews m462.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
In short yes. I have true duals with v&h 450. I posted my results if you search in this section. 107" stage 2 true duals. I added the Thunder Torque Inserts. They work on the true duals. U can actually install them on the v&h 450 so there is no external drilling on the pipe. Just modify the baffle. Madmat has tried them as well with good results as far as I know. I am pulling 120 torque. Not over 100hp but all my torque is low. I could get it over 100 by opening up the TTI's but I like where my torque is at.
I included my setup. Running the Andrews m462.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
Thanks for your input... I have a hard time believing too heavily in the lolipops or TTI's. I've seen a few dyno sheets like yours that sure make them look like the real deal. My problem is that going through Fuelmoto and telling them i'm just keeping my exhaust that they and many others say, is horrible for power, is going to seem like i'm not trusting them and their dyno tests. It seems that their test show over and over again that the head pipe and muffler they like to run (especially their head pipe with the crossover) show great results. Especially since they will send a tuned program in the tuner for what they know works. I'm not sure they would be able to help me with a tune with my setup and some TTC's??

I'm not bashing what you showed me by any means. It looks like it worked well for your bike!! Great numbers.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadglideJ View Post
Thanks for your input... I have a hard time believing too heavily in the lolipops or TTI's. I've seen a few dyno sheets like yours that sure make them look like the real deal. My problem is that going through Fuelmoto and telling them i'm just keeping my exhaust that they and many others say, is horrible for power, is going to seem like i'm not trusting them and their dyno tests. It seems that their test show over and over again that the head pipe and muffler they like to run (especially their head pipe with the crossover) show great results. Especially since they will send a tuned program in the tuner for what they know works. I'm not sure they would be able to help me with a tune with my setup and some TTC's??



I'm not bashing what you showed me by any means. It looks like it worked well for your bike!! Great numbers.
I fully understand. Not trying to push them on you at all. It was either I try them for $35 or I spend way more money on new headpipe and possibly mufflers. It was a gamble I was willing to take. I my option it was hands down worth it. I paid for a Dyno tune though. But guarantee they can come up with a tune close to what you need. Try it , you can always get a new map from them if u change headpipe for free. I would think Jamie would respect a guy trying something. Just a thought. I wanted to see where I ended up and am more than happy. If I would do a 2-1-2 or 2-1 I could get more, but how much more. My numbers are definitely not terrible and it runs hard.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadglideJ View Post
So i've been doing quite a bit of research on upgrades for my 18 Road glide special. I have Bassani True Dual head pipes and V&H 450 Destroyer 4.5" slip on's with stage one SE air cleaner. I have the dyno sheet for this set up highlighted in red.
After talking to Fuelmoto, they insured me that my exhaust set up is one of the worst possible for performance on the M8, even though it looks and sounds good, lol.
Looking at what i want to do, (Woods 22x cams (i like low rpm tq and hp), and new exhaust, which would be the Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe into the Jackpot Outlaw slip on's) i found a dyno sheet from Fuelmoto that compares my current set up to the new one.
My question is.... is this for real??? Wow... my set up currently is terrible. Look at the huge gap in TQ alone at 2500 rpm of 18!!!
Would this be a reasonable expectation using the Fuelmoto premapped Power Vision tuner or would i need to get it dynoed...

Looks like about $1650 shipped for everything...If these could be my results than it would be a no brainer???
true dual exhaust is an extension of the old idea of drag pipes.
for years people equated flow (no back pressure) with more power.
problem is, unless you're planning to spend a lot of time in the higher revs (like in a drag race), they just plain don't work well as street pipes.

the best pull i ever got on my 80" Evo was with the old kerker y-pipe that split the rear cylinder exhaust into two pipes.
not only did it provide flow on the top end, it helped scavenge exhaust gases out of the front pipe, and vice versa.
a good exhaust will be tuned to pull those gases out – so they aren't sucked back into the cylinder – and fill it with a diluted mixture. (reversion)

i would follow the advice of FuelMoto if for no other reason than they can be held somewhat responsible if it doesn't work out lol
their dyno sheets indicate which combinations work well together and seem to be a pretty good picture of what to expect.

i have their outlaw pipes on my bike and they work well. they are thick steel and are made well.
after a few miles the packing burns out and they sound good, too, for an M8.
my buddy says they sound like an old rat rod.

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 07:38 PM
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Plus 1 on the TTI’s and what Livewire stated. I was a little skeptical and on the fence about the inserts until I saw his Dyno sheet. There is no early dip or low spot typically associated with true duels.

I have the V&H 450 destroyers and really liked the pipes and the sound but was very disappointed with the loss of low end torque that came with them. The difference between the street cannons and the V&H was night and day performance wise. I have the stock Headpipe with the cat in. The whole TTI idea sounded a little hokey to me but for $30 I figured I would give it a try.

Glad I did, got all the low end back that I get with the street cannons and better sound. I have had the them in now for 5k plus miles with no issues.

You can spend all the money you want in pursuit of horse power and torque or you can start with $30 and a 1/2 hour of your time, you won’t be disappointed.
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 08:30 PM
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I've talked to Kevin Baxter at ProTwin Performance about exhaust and he told me that when a customer comes to him for a build, one of the things he asks after he finds out their riding style and budget and power they want is that if they have a particular exhaust setup that they like. If so he can then choose the cam that will work the best with that exhaust. If they don't really have an exhaust in mind he will choose the best came for their purpose and then pick the exhaust that works the best for that cam. There are not any cams that work at peak performance with every type of exhaust. I'm sure this is why FM likes their exhaust and cam suggestions. They have done plenty of testing and have multiple formulas that work.

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Wing View Post
true dual exhaust is an extension of the old idea of drag pipes.
for years people equated flow (no back pressure) with more power.
problem is, unless you're planning to spend a lot of time in the higher revs (like in a drag race), they just plain don't work well as street pipes.

the best pull i ever got on my 80" Evo was with the old kerker y-pipe that split the rear cylinder exhaust into two pipes.
not only did it provide flow on the top end, it helped scavenge exhaust gases out of the front pipe, and vice versa.
a good exhaust will be tuned to pull those gases out – so they aren't sucked back into the cylinder – and fill it with a diluted mixture. (reversion)

i would follow the advice of FuelMoto if for no other reason than they can be held somewhat responsible if it doesn't work out lol
their dyno sheets indicate which combinations work well together and seem to be a pretty good picture of what to expect.

i have their outlaw pipes on my bike and they work well. they are thick steel and are made well.
after a few miles the packing burns out and they sound good, too, for an M8.
my buddy says they sound like an old rat rod.
So they do have fiberglass packing in them? I wondered. I pulled the packing out of my v&h 450's to get some more noise. Much better. Wonder how hard or detrimental it would be to pull the packing out of the fuelmoto outlaws?
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