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-   -   Water Pump obsolescence (https://www.roadglide.org/201-fluids-lubricants/364595-water-pump-obsolescence.html)

Beaver 07-04-2018 02:46 AM

Water Pump obsolescence
 
If your bike is liquid cooled, be aware you might face availability problems on your trips

The unfamous and unreliable Coolant Pump 26600012 is marked as “obsolete” in the HD parts database, the availability at dealership is very scarse and no alternatives are available at this moment on the market.

Despite it looks like many automotive liquid pumps like the Bosch ones, in reality it is “built to fit” only HD, so no commercial replacement is available at this time.

In preparation for my summer road trip i asked yesterday my friend to buy one in the Philly area, the dealer had one, THE LAST, and told my friend he was lucky because there are few available around and no immediate alternative from HD is foreseen at this moment. The pump cost was 459$

The risk is that if it fail on a road trip and no pumps are around your area to face the following choices:
  1. being stranded for days waiting for a spare to arrive
  2. Stop the trip and tow the bike home
  3. Rent a car or bike to carry on the trip and recover the bike later on
  4. Continuing riding with no pump risking of damaging the heads (water cool down mostly the exhaust valves)

Any of them is an expensive option......

In light of the fact that the pump soon or later will fail, I decided to invest in peace of mind and I will take this spare pump in the bag just in case. It is possible that my’19 will present a different pump that could be retrofitted in the old models, but it is just my assumption. In the meanwhile, the riding season is now, I’m going to North Cape - Norway and I do not want to remain stranded up there for an obsolete part.

Just to bring the thing to your attention for the proper considerations if you are planning a big summer trip

MightyWhitey 07-04-2018 06:24 AM

I donít know much about the wet head but it is still just an air cooled engine, no? The wet head just allows you to continue to make the same power on a really hot day that you would on a cooler day by keeping the head cool. Someone can correct me if Iím wrong but I donít see any reason, without ever seeing how this works mind you, that you couldnít pinch those hoses off and continue on your trip without the head cooling system.

Beaver 07-04-2018 07:04 AM

In my knowledge, the liquid cooled have an higher compression rate, so the main purpose of refrigerating the heads is to maintain a regular combustion and to cool down the exhaust valves.
Surely riding without it is possible (I listed in the options list) because of the mixed air/liquid cooling, but Iím not sure if doing it for something more than reaching the closest dealer is a smart thing to do in terms of endurance.
If something is in there, it is because it has a job that needs to be done.

My point here is only to advise that this part is in shortage, then is up to anybody to take this into account or not independently from my personal choice.

Thermodyne 07-04-2018 09:27 AM

I have been hearing about people putting the M8 style pumps on older scooters. It involves swapping out for the M8 regulator mount and cooling tubes as well as the pump hoses and a new cover. I'll bet there is a package from the MoCo to just that. For some reason these upgrade kits never make it into the parts look up system.

Past that, they have to supply pumps. They have a legal requirement, 7 years IIRC. But that doesn't mean that there couldn't be some hiccups with availability.

BlazingSaddle 07-04-2018 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyWhitey (Post 4512959)
I donít know much about the wet head but it is still just an air cooled engine, no? The wet head just allows you to continue to make the same power on a really hot day that you would on a cooler day by keeping the head cool. Someone can correct me if Iím wrong but I donít see any reason, without ever seeing how this works mind you, that you couldnít pinch those hoses off and continue on your trip without the head cooling system.

It makes sense and itís what I thought too. The reality is, no can do. My pump went out sooner than later. Called and was told ďsure, ride it on in, no problemĒ, so I did. Speaking to the service manager, was told I could have caused damage. Unlike the air cooled engines, apparently there are passages in the wet head that are very thin and can be damaged if ridden too far with a faulty pump. Been a year and no problems, but if it goes out again, wonít chance it. IIRC, they had a bad source for pumps, and rectified the problem. I see it as a matter of when, not a matter of if it goes out again. Water pumps go out, and the same thing could happen (and has) while driving my car. I donít see supply as a problem. There are other things that can crap out on these bikes that could leave you stranded and the dealer might have to wait for. I donít worry about it.

MightyWhitey 07-04-2018 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlazingSaddle (Post 4513097)
It makes sense and itís what I thought too. The reality is, no can do. My pump went out sooner than later. Called and was told ďsure, ride it on in, no problemĒ, so I did. Speaking to the service manager, was told I could have caused damage. Unlike the air cooled engines, apparently there are passages in the wet head that are very thin and can be damaged if ridden too far with a faulty pump. Been a year and no problems, but if it goes out again, wonít chance it. IIRC, they had a bad source for pumps, and rectified the problem. I see it as a matter of when, not a matter of if it goes out again. Water pumps go out, and the same thing could happen (and has) while driving my car. I donít see supply as a problem. There are other things that can crap out on these bikes that could leave you stranded and the dealer might have to wait for. I donít worry about it.

Well Iím glad someone more knowledgeable than myself corrected me. Im curious now though how do you know the water pump has quit? Weep hole, water temp, do you have a water temp dummy light?

reds4 07-04-2018 05:52 PM

I picture being a mechanical water pump, making the same clickbang bearing sound all make when goingout bad.

BlazingSaddle 07-04-2018 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyWhitey (Post 4513163)
how do you know the water pump has quit? Weep hole, water temp, do you have a water temp dummy light?

The amber engine light in the speedometer housing came on, and thereís a red temperature light in the tach that came on at the same time.
It also threw a DTC 1019 that I looked up and could have been a number of things. The bottom of the shroud was wet, but not dripping or soaked. Coolant levels were fine.
Had just finished installing a Stage 1 and a PowerVision and coincidentally crapped out as I was test riding. Just tooling along, not dogging it. Thought I screwed something up with the install, or that the PowerVision was causing issues. The pump is electronic so didnít get the usual clacking, grinding or coolant puddle you would normally hear/see with a car.

smitty901 07-05-2018 07:19 AM

The wet head came to market in 2014. So you are saying that if you have a 2014 Wet head and the coolant pump goes out you are out a 2014 bike. Just park it no options. Do you expect many to really believe that. Some will do anything to post their anit Harley rants. Their is no 2014 Harley parked for the scrap pile because a pump was discontinued.

26600012 - COOLANT PUMP Harley-Davidsonģ Parts and Accessories

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

The list goes on and on.

Beaver 07-05-2018 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty901 (Post 4513341)
The wet head came to market in 2014. So you are saying that if you have a 2014 Wet head and the coolant pump goes out you are out a 2014 bike. Just park it no options. Do you expect many to really believe that. Some will do anything to post their anit Harley rants. Their is no 2014 Harley parked for the scrap pile because a pump was discontinued.

26600012 - COOLANT PUMP Harley-Davidsonģ Parts and Accessories

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

The list goes on and on.

The fact that you can order does not necessary imply that they can deliver on the spot.....

By definition obsolescence is “an event leading to diminish the possibility to procure/using an item” and also my area of responsibility in my actual job.....

If the pump is declared obsolete, I assume HD made a LTB (Last Time Buy) in order to guarantee a limited supply for both production and support while they are defining a solution (new 3F (Form Fit & Function) vendor or redesign). In the support case normally a limited number of spares is made available for pre-determined geographical areas (if they’re smart by setting the numbers in accordance with the removal statistics) while a core is maintained in a central deposit to fill the gap when needed in the troubled areas.

What does it mean to the Customers. It means that if you are lucky your local dealer has the pump on hand and case solved. If he has not, then you have to hope it is available in the area of interest and it will take a few days. In case the local area is short then the reference become the central deposit, and then the spare will probably take weeks according to the efficiency of the chain.

Let’s take my case: my friend was defined “lucky” by the parts manager because he got the last part he had in stock otherwise the waiting could have been long.

This means that if you have a pump failure THIS MORNING and THAT is the closest dealership from where you are, the answers you will get will be “sorry, we have to order the spare” and “deliver will depend by availability and shipping time”.

At that point obsolescence will have impacted you. It is not a rant, it is simply the way obsolescence work.

How to resolve: first of all, obsolescence is never resolved, it is managed. The management can be left at vendor level, HD in this case, so you rely on them to provide the part when needed in accordance to their timing, or as a User you can take your precautionary measures to cover your operational needs (as I did)

Again, pumps are there for you ,but very probably in limited availability. It is not the end of the world but the information is there so you can manage it in the way you prefer.

And again, the fact that you can order does not imply that it can be immediately delivered, this is what the backorder are for.....

Last, I can also be wrong and having overreacted due to my experience. You can still place some calls to your area dealers and check the COOLANT PUMP 26600012 availability. I’ll be happy to be demonstrated as wrong, more piece of mind for me because bike is still under warranty so I’ll keep my spare for the future and in the meanwhile I’ll will have the installed pump eventually replaced for free if it fails

See also a backorder example in Europe: https://estore.manchester-harley-dav...12-p66268.html


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