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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so I've looked all over the web, and this site and can't seem to come up with an definitive answer, so I'm hoping some one here might have the answer??

I really like the Arlen Ness Over the Top header, unfortunately, the only ones I can find are for 2009 touring models.

I know the O2 sensors are in different places on the 09 and the 2012, I also know that knightrider sells a 12mm O2 sensor relocation kit, so my question is...............

Can I move the O2 sensors from their stock position to the 09 position without any mods/tuners/etc. or will I need to buy something else to make the O2 sensor work in the 09 headers??

Thanks in advance for your knowledgeable input!!
 

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I think the only way you could move the O2s would require adapters because of the sensor size difference. I think that would be less than ideal regardless because the sensor would be pulled out of the optimal location in the exhaust stream. So, it seems realistically, and easiest option would be weld in some 12mm bungs as close to the stock location as possible. Alternatively get a tuner that supports wideband O2 sensors and go that route, afterall, the general opinion is that wideband is better for performance tuning.

...or keep scouring ebay for used set of the '10 and up version.

I didn't stay at a Holiday inn, but I've been reading everything i can get my hands on trying to learn how to tune the EFI...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks rageglide, I also had and answer from another forum saying that the 12mm sensors wouldn't protrude far enough into the gas stream and therefore wouldn't work, he also suggested welding 12mm bungs to the pipe and plugging the 18mm holes

Unfortunately the Arlen Ness pipes were discontinued for the 2010 and on models
 

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Thanks rageglide, I also had and answer from another forum saying that the 12mm sensors wouldn't protrude far enough into the gas stream and therefore wouldn't work, he also suggested welding 12mm bungs to the pipe and plugging the 18mm holes

Unfortunately the Arlen Ness pipes were discontinued for the 2010 and on models
It wasn't me on the other forum :) I was trying to say exactly that, that the NB O2s are so small and any adapter would shroud them. I would think they'd work in the stock location but would still need tuning to address the different temperature. I think they are placed right in front of the catalytic to insure that the mixture is plenty hot at that point. But i'm far from an EFI wizard...

It seems the model of pipes are discontinued for 09 and 10+. Anyway, may stumble across a great deal if you set up an alert in ebay.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
already have a good deal for a set on the bay, but if I have to start cutting/welding/general f*#king around, then I'd rather just get a set of head pipes that will be bolt on instead. I just really liked the look of the AN's
 

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The 2009 and earlier touring models have the 18mm 02 sensors up close to the cylinder head because it was the best place to take the readings of the exhaust gases. Any manufacture that makes a aftermarket auto tuner use the 18mm closed loop 02 sensors and require the 02 bungs to be located close to the cylinder heads. If you can get a aftermarket wiring harness that would extend the 02 wires to the new location or see if you can get the 2009 02 wiring harness from HD. You can also get a auto tuner such as T-max or Power Vision these tuners come with the wiring harness needed for the 18mm 02 sensors.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The 2009 and earlier touring models have the 18mm 02 sensors up close to the cylinder head because it was the best place to take the readings of the exhaust gases. Any manufacture that makes a aftermarket auto tuner use the 18mm closed loop 02 sensors and require the 02 bungs to be located close to the cylinder heads. If you can get a aftermarket wiring harness that would extend the 02 wires to the new location or see if you can get the 2009 02 wiring harness from HD. You can also get a auto tuner such as T-max or Power Vision these tuners come with the wiring harness needed for the 18mm 02 sensors.
Thanks Mark, but I was also hoping to avoid the almost $1000 cost of a thunder max or PV w/ auto tune. I was hoping to just get away with Vied's since I only have a stage 1 kit.
 

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already have a good deal for a set on the bay, but if I have to start cutting/welding/general f*#king around, then I'd rather just get a set of head pipes that will be bolt on instead. I just really liked the look of the AN's
I understand, my comment was suggesting to find the 10+ version by being patient... easier said than done, I know.
Who'd guess English is my first language lol

Ironmark, not to highjack... but it's understood that the WBs work best at the head and that's why everyone, HD and the aftermarket want them there. I think, (I do not know), the NB sensor would not work well in that location due to it's operational limitations. My comment was that they are placed in close proximity of the cat in order to keep the temps as high as possible at the Cat. It stands to reason that the ECM adjusts mixture accordingly to insure the mixture is proper given that it's sampling quite a ways down stream. I'm sure Harley liked moving the O2s out of sight but I really doubt they did it as a cosmetic thing. I guess my point is, you wouldn't want to adapt them, you'd want to go the Tmax, WB Autotune route (as you also suggested).

To know for sure, moleng1 needs an EFI experts opinion. Maybe Jamie can answer that by phone.
 

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Thanks Mark, but I was also hoping to avoid the almost $1000 cost of a thunder max or PV w/ auto tune. I was hoping to just get away with Vied's since I only have a stage 1 kit.
Ah... ok, didn't realize you didn't have a tuner at all. I think you should just take the head pipe when/if you get it, to a muffler shop and have them weld in bungs for, that would be very easy and cheap. Put plugs in the 18mm bungs.
 

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The OS on the 09 has a 2 wire plug and get the heat from the exhaust at head. The 12 OS has a 4 wire plug and is heated from the ECM.
 

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i Believe that HD offers a (kit) that will change a change over kit to make that pipe work with 2010 and newer, Its about $30. I sold my 09 pro pipe to a guy.he had a 2010 and he bought the old sensor kit from the dealer with no problem.
 

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i Believe that HD offers a (kit) that will change a change over kit to make that pipe work with 2010 and newer, Its about $30. I sold my 09 pro pipe to a guy.he had a 2010 and he bought the old sensor kit from the dealer with no problem.
This sounds like a great option for moleng1, but I'd guess he's going to need a flash to his ECM by the dealer to switch it from NBs to WBs.
 

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I understand, my comment was suggesting to find the 10+ version by being patient... easier said than done, I know.
Who'd guess English is my first language lol

Ironmark, not to highjack... but it's understood that the WBs work best at the head and that's why everyone, HD and the aftermarket want them there. I think, (I do not know), the NB sensor would not work well in that location due to it's operational limitations. My comment was that they are placed in close proximity of the cat in order to keep the temps as high as possible at the Cat. It stands to reason that the ECM adjusts mixture accordingly to insure the mixture is proper given that it's sampling quite a ways down stream. I'm sure Harley liked moving the O2s out of sight but I really doubt they did it as a cosmetic thing. I guess my point is, you wouldn't want to adapt them, you'd want to go the Tmax, WB Autotune route (as you also suggested).

To know for sure, moleng1 needs an EFI experts opinion. Maybe Jamie can answer that by phone.
I understand what your thinking but in the 2009 and earlier models the cat was put in the mufflers and that is why HD put the 02 sensors near the heads. Because it was to easy for the consumer to remove the cat HD had to make changes to comply with the EPA regs.
In 2010 HD put the cat in the head pipes and then went with the 12mm 02 sensor (mostly to make the EPA happy) hopefully making it more difficult for the consumer to make exhaust changes. I assumed that since the 2009 head pipe was in question that the cat in the head pipe would be eliminated. Since the OP doesn't have any kind of tuner I would suggest that he looks for a more compatible exhaust for his bike. JMO
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for all the advice guys, appreciated.

I heard back from nightrider and they said they have been selling their relocation kit since late 2009 and have had no complanits or feedback that the kits don't work, and as far as he knows, the other sellers of this type of relocation kit have not had negative responces either?

quote:

This kit was designed in late 2009 and offered to riders as an easy way to expand the number of exhaust systems available to their 2010 touring bikes. We have not seen any issues with the relocation kits over the years it has been available.
While there are some speculations of potential situations that may develop or exist (high heat on the sensor resulting in early aging and timed read of the O2 sensor not being late so AFR might read lean resulting in very slightly richer mixtures), over the couple of years none of these has developed to the best of my knowledge.

Now I realize that nightrider is trying to sell these kits, but they're products seem to be highly regaurded over on the HD forums??

I guess I may just look for a suited set of head pipes, it's a big risk to take to find out uit doesn't work! If I alraedy had the head pipe I might give the extensions a try, but since I would have to buy both???................. oh well, now to find another cool looking head pipe, bummer!! lol
 
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