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Discussion Starter #1
Those who have done 124's, either S&S crate or had your case bored out.
Would you do it again?
Why did you go with the crate vs boring out your case?
Anyone get the crate and replace the cam chest because of cam options?

I'm curious... Need some direction on pros/cons of each. The cost difference seems to be ~2k, which I'd consider a wash because I'd have the existing engine.

Just seems the better way to go is to bore out existing case, and get a high end crank, which is not what I had thought.

This will be 100% NA engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
This will be on a TC, not an M8
 

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S&S crate has a S&S crank , no better choice there , and you can get the LC version which is more street friendly .. Advantage to your cases is you retain your VIN ... Either way if you sell or trade , it's a wash cause you will not get your money back .. Ask Ken (Glide69) he had a SS 124 crate and got hammered on the trade ..

I would go with the SS124 crate and be done with it ..
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I should have added... I'm planning on doing some headwork, throttle bdy, larger injectors, and different pistons than what the S&S LC (585 cam) comes with if I go that route, so I do have some cost increase.

However, after talking to a well known builder, I'm now thinking of having my engine reworked and going with a stronger (stronger than the S&S) crank and 657 cam. One of the reasons for the stronger crank is I'd like to get rid of the compensator and not have to worry about it
 

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full tuned S&S Crate 124 in a Fat boy with a D&D 2-1 pipe

SOB cranks, fun as hell to ride, I would and will do a S&S crate again, in a couple years the RGS might have the 143 in it
 

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S&S crate has a S&S crank , no better choice there , and you can get the LC version which is more street friendly .. Advantage to your cases is you retain your VIN ... Either way if you sell or trade , it's a wash cause you will not get your money back .. Ask Ken (Glide69) he had a SS 124 crate and got hammered on the trade ..



I would go with the SS124 crate and be done with it ..


I totally disagree with this response sorry but I own several 124’s both off screaming eagle cases old and new T2 cases.

1st you void the warranty on a t2 case if you do internal passages, 2nd the gnurled timkens move and can’t be pinned (ruins the motor and crank), 3rd you get 2mm rings and many have oiling issues, 4th you have to carry around an MSO for the cops if they check, 5th you get the crappy X wedge gear set in the cam cover, sure you can change it but will cost you a lot more to go to old style cam chest.

If you build your own using your cases you have, there is a fault and that can be clamping force (cylinder weeping on the bottom) but using copper seal on the base baskets you can minimize this. You can get a blue pump and plate, or other, premium lifters, and 3mm rings / pistons, you can then choose the heads you want as well b2, MVA, B3, 103, CVO 110 etc.

You can also put in a pinned timken or go with 2 left bearings.

Recommend S&S crank or the P3R Crank, Drago 3 MM ring turbo pistons 0 deck 2.5 piston to wall, S&S cylinders, if MVA heads go with 2.150 valves and clean up and .035 headgaskets with 640 cam (quiet) and depending where you live ride 88-90 cc chambers with a good 2-1 pipe like Drago or Borzilla with a quiet baffle, 58 or 62 mm throttle body with 6.22 injectors, and if no lowers the heavy breather. Don’t forget a clutch upgrade this should put you around the 140’s or better.

If you decide to do a 124 LC with the 585 I would still do it off your cases the only change would be the pistons, there is about 10 of them in the group we ride with and it is a great motor combo, just be sure to keep the compression around 10.25 so you can avoid having to detune the timing and put up with pinging (PMS). Most of the bikes are in the 135-140 torque and 118-124 hp range.

If you are going to do headwork, recommend John Sachs for the job - has done all my work for years and many of the CVO guys heads and delivers on the power.

Best of luck on your build hope it turns out the way you want
 

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S&S 124LC is what I would do. IF I had the dough. Jmo
 

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I have had a crate S&S 124HC in my 12 RG for around 40000 miles and absolutely love it! No down side at all (other than the cost of course) and runs amazing at all speeds and RPM's.
 

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I had a S&S 124 HC crate motor (640) cams,
66mm TB the numbers where mid 130's HP and TQ out of the crate.. I ran a solid sprocket (no comp) and ran the bike hard and put her away wet for 30k with no issues.. The only thing is the high compression motor uses oil... And of course the trade in factor.. Harley won't resell a bike and warranty it with a S&S motor they wholesale it so you get shit for it from them.. Would I do it again?? I will have to see when the time comes and see what S&S has available for a M8 124 crate motor...
 

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The S&S motor has more bore and less stroke. That gives you more skirt area, less piston velocity, better rod angle, and less ring wear. Aside from that, it's made from better stuff.
 

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The S&S motor has more bore and less stroke. That gives you more skirt area, less piston velocity, better rod angle, and less ring wear. Aside from that, it's made from better stuff.


It would be the same bore and stroke if he used the S&S 124 crank and cylinders same as in the S&S Motor have to cut the cases

I would never consider doing a 4 3/8 124
 

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The S&S motor has more bore and less stroke. That gives you more skirt area, less piston velocity, better rod angle, and less ring wear. Aside from that, it's made from better stuff.
Do you mean to say that the cases are better, or are we talking about more than that?
 

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Do you mean to say that the cases are better, or are we talking about more than that?
The cases are probably better, cant say that I've heard of many TC case fails. They are forsure bigger. They'll take more overbore if that's what floats your boat. Its a shame that the MoCo wouldn't let S&S use the rear case interface, and eliminate the hoses. That return hose routing is a little concerning.

I think the #1 advantage with S&S over the MoCo on crate motors is the wheels. The S&S flywheels set is undeniably better than what you get from the MoCo. Better materials, better workmanship, and better engineering.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sounds like there are advantages/disadvantages with both options... The S&S requires the oil line kit, which sucks but is what it is... I haven't heard of anyone having issues with that (other than the pia and little bit of cost)

With the S&S your more limited on cam choice being the camchest is setup for gear drive cams. however, the 585 seems to be able to put out pretty descent numbers with a little headwork, etc. Redoing the harley case seems to have an advantage here simply for the number of options available.

Not sure if S&S has updated their rings, I thought I heard somewhere they did a couple years ago. But either way, this seems to be a minor concern...

Paperwork... Who really cares if I have to carry additional paperwork with the S&S. I'll just stay in the bike...

I would still have the old engine if I decided to sell, or something happens to the S&S where I really wanted to ride while it was being addressed. This would have to be major though..

Initially I was planning on doing work to the engine to get it to 145/145, but think I'll just do the 585's out the box, and have a good tune put on it, maybe next winter, or the following redo the heads, pistons, etc for a little bump.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So, S&S LC (585 cams) with 66mm Throttle Hog.
I wonder if they would bump the compression from 10.2 to 10.5 and still cover the warranty??

Would larger injectors make a difference?

And clutch.. EVO industries Black Ops, or just get a basket and lockup kit?
 

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I used the stock basket with a extra plate clutch stack and the S&S variable pressure clutch with no issues..
 

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So, S&S LC (585 cams) with 66mm Throttle Hog.
I wonder if they would bump the compression from 10.2 to 10.5 and still cover the warranty??

Would larger injectors make a difference?

And clutch.. EVO industries Black Ops, or just get a basket and lockup kit?
'Don't think S&S will do any "special order" Crate Motors with warranty. (I asked a while back)

Recommend at least 5.3, possibly 6.2 Injectors (ask your Tuning Guy)

Recommend all Stock, with Alto Carbonite Plates, and AIM Lockup, for a no pms Clutch set-up with PLENTY of holding power...

IMHO you could run the Stock Crate Motor through the Warranty Period,,, With a Proper Tune, Pipe, & Intake, it might just be enough,,, at least for a while :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
'Don't think S&S will do any "special order" Crate Motors with warranty. (I asked a while back)

Recommend at least 5.3, possibly 6.2 Injectors (ask your Tuning Guy)

Recommend all Stock, with Alto Carbonite Plates, and AIM Lockup, for a no pms Clutch set-up with PLENTY of holding power...

IMHO you could run the Stock Crate Motor through the Warranty Period,,, With a Proper Tune, Pipe, & Intake, it might just be enough,,, at least for a while :wink:
One of the builders has 7.2 Injectors.
I've also read that the 66mm will give slower throttle response where 58mm may loose some top end..
 

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One of the builders has 7.2 Injectors.
I've also read that the 66mm will give slower throttle response where 58mm may loose some top end..
The 6.2s are plenty big for a Crate 124, with room enough to grow...

The 66 will give quicker throttle response if the motor is Built/Tuned to take it, but will take a top tier Tuner (person) to keep it from becoming "too twichy" at low speeds,,, I'd stay with the 58, better manners, much easier to Tune...

The 58mm / 6.2s will support 140/140 all day long... And not give up anything...
 
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