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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the fence between a new crate 131 engine and a stage 4kit. Currently my RGS has 4000 Miles.
What are the pro/cons? What is the potential value of my current M8 114 If I sell it to offset some of the new 131?
 

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Im not sure what or if any machine work will be needed in order to build your engine out to a 131 but turn around time would probably be quicker if you do a crate engine as opposed to rebuilding your engine which would be a pro. This part will be a con depending whether or not you care about it or not but, if you do a crate engine then it wont be a "numbers matching" bike. Who is doing the work? Ask them about their labor cost for each scenario
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Im not sure what or if any machine work will be needed in order to build your engine out to a 131 but turn around time would probably be quicker if you do a crate engine as opposed to rebuilding your engine which would be a pro. This part will be a con depending whether or not you care about it or not but, if you do a crate engine then it wont be a "numbers matching" bike. Who is doing the work? Ask them about their labor cost for each scenario
I would go to a HD dealer. I should add that I m talking about the OEM HD 131 engine and kit.
 

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Take your bike to a good indy and have them build your 114 up. The cylinders will be stronger, the cam will be better, your oiling system will be bullet proof, and the tuner will actually tune the bike to its maximum potential. Harleys performance upgrades are adequate but leaves a ton of performance on the table to keep your warranty they handcuff you to there upgrades holding the warranty over your head.
 

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Places in the states will warrent a non HD build.

Both the kit and motor are rated at 121rwhp 131tq.

Which is rather pathetic a good stage 2 will beat that. My 117 has 131/148tq

U can get there 131 up higher with different cam and tuner. Maybee a set of pistions to boost comp but then why bother with the 131kit.

Ive ridden a 131 demo road glide (I'm still waiting to ride my 131/148 rgs) I found the power was very linear it just left me wanting more from a 131. Which was compared to my 150hp+ fxlrs which is alot more aggressive.

Just felt like not alot of power for a big motor.

Having said that each person is different but if you are going 131 it's generally cause you want power. Just do some research first.
 

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The 114 that is in your bike would be easier to upgrade than to buy a whole new motor and install in my opinion. I would just make sure to stay on the installing dealer's ass about checking the crankshaft runout before they just blindly proceed with the install and never checking it. I am positive that never checking runout happens quite often. Not sure if you are still under warranty or not but if you are not then I would check out the aftermarket for your upgrade, if you are still under warranty then you obviously know what you have to do to keep your warranty happy.
 

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Pros and Cons of a 131, would be answered best by someone riding one
Go over to the Facebook 131 Owners page, to get firsthand info on what to expect

Obviously, your interested in one because of warranty issues. I understand completely, because I own one, and did it exactly for that reason...... on my 1 month old bike (1700 miles).

The crate engine has the benefit of having a 114 to sell. But from reading posts, there not a huge demand for a complete take out motor. So if your on a tight budget, don't rely on the cash back to make you whole. Or if you want to build a project bike, it would be nice to have a new 114 for it
With the kit, you have a numbers matching bike......If selling/trading is in your future

The "kit" is nothing more than a top end and cam change, but with supporting mods, injectors, intake manifold, cnc's heads, oil cooler with fan, lifters, etc. That can be serviced & warrantied by any HD dealer
Lineral power? LOL, thats a new one to me and one I've never heard before, especially from people that own one. The bike is well behaved at 35 mph speeds and pulls hard to redline. This is with the epa HD cam.Does it leave "something" on the table.....sure with a warranty, as would any vehicle.
To be sure, with the factory tuner, warranty required, heat will be an issue.
My bike with Reinhart slipons did the advertised numbers, 120/137 to the tire. Thats a fun ride on a RoadGlide, reguardless what anyone says
Some deal with it, don't know, I couldn't/wouldn't after temps reached 80
I voided my warranty after 3K miles, with an aftermarket tuner from Fuel Moto, that was 3K miles of banging off the rev limiter to convince myself the motor was solid. The bike now is 132/137 according to the last pull.

Now you can't talk about the 131 without talking money. I was lucky in, that I did the kit when dealers were cutting deals on the kits (10% off) and during the winter with Covid, they had labor deals to keep the shop personal busy. I paid $4200 for my kit installed. I had the SE air kit and tuner already. I've seen quotes posted online of 7 grand which, looking back, I wouldn't have done it.

For an EPA approved and fully warrantied motor, its not a bad deal....depending on final price
Plus it's a solid foundation for a 150/150 platform with a cam/bigger injectors/tuner.
Which Iam in search of......

Don't know your location
If in the NE, Harley Davidson of Quantico in Dumfries Va has an excellent reputation with fully warrantied complete packages in the 140/150 rwhp.
In Texas, GMR has put together many, non warrantied, packages that are stout

Looking back, if I knew, I was going to void my warranty, I would have had Fuel Moto build me a 128.
But, I was looking to retain my factory warranty on my new bike and add some power.
I don't have any regrets now and Iam moving forward

Again, the FB 131 forum is your best bet for info on this combo......good and bad
GOOD LUCK
 

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2020 Zephyr Blue / Black RGS stage 2 TQ cam,V&H power duals, Ventilator Ciro bag blades,Kahuna heate
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On the fence between a new crate 131 engine and a stage 4kit. Currently my RGS has 4000 Miles.
What are the pro/cons? What is the potential value of my current M8 114 If I sell it to offset some of the new 131?
This might help your decision go on utube and look at the cycleworld review of the 131 crate motor vs a 114 in a 1/4 mile run.Good luck
 

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This might help your decision go on utube and look at the cycleworld review of the 131 crate motor vs a 114 in a 1/4 mile run.Good luck
1/4 miles runs only tell you 2 things.....
ET........ is traction and the first 60' make all the difference
MPH.... at the end of the 1320 tells you hp

Ive played that very expensive game for many years
 

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1/4 miles runs only tell you 2 things.....
ET........ is traction and the first 60' make all the difference
MPH.... at the end of the 1320 tells you hp

Ive played that very expensive game for many years
Bruce I agree, it is the entire package and most importantly the skill of the pilot.What this CycleWorld review shows me is the minimal differences between the two power plants.
The 131 Crate motor price point is fair as is the kit.When the 124 crate motors came out I called John at DarkHorse to ask his opinion he said do not install the motor until you send it here to have the crank welded.The MoCo was well aware of crank runout inV twins then and I thought it would be a no brainer to correct it with this new crate motor.They did not. At the end of the day we’re still riding touring bikes.My 2020 RGS stage 2 TQ cam really runs nice. No Dyno dollars, just ride and enjoy.I am more excited about the Evolution motor going forward than what is available today.Pan America 150 hp at the crank.New Sportster 121 hp same power plant.With that kind of flexibility.Drop it in a bagger done.
V Twin to M8 20 years.M8 to Evolution 4 years. Zeits has the aftermarket in the cross hairs get out the popcorn and get a good seat.
 

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Bruce I agree, it is the entire package and most importantly the skill of the pilot.What this CycleWorld review shows me is the minimal differences between the two power plants.
The 131 Crate motor price point is fair as is the kit.When the 124 crate motors came out I called John at DarkHorse to ask his opinion he said do not install the motor until you send it here to have the crank welded.The MoCo was well aware of crank runout inV twins then and I thought it would be a no brainer to correct it with this new crate motor.They did not. At the end of the day we’re still riding touring bikes.My 2020 RGS stage 2 TQ cam really runs nice. No Dyno dollars, just ride and enjoy.I am more excited about the Evolution motor going forward than what is available today.Pan America 150 hp at the crank.New Sportster 121 hp same power plant.With that kind of flexibility.Drop it in a bagger done.
V Twin to M8 20 years.M8 to Evolution 4 years. Zeits has the aftermarket in the cross hairs get out the popcorn and get a good seat.
I too have spoken to DarkHorse......before the twincam was totaled. And ofcourse he told me I need to send him my lower wheels to make the motor bulletproof. As long has you stay away from burnouts/powershifting etc, the longivity remains fairly good with a stock bottom end. I might eat those words, but I ride differently that I did 30 yrs ago.
FuelMoto, among others build 150hp M8's on stock bottom ends, on a daily basis. If there was any doubt in their minds, they wouldn't send them out the door. Now if you want to really step it up, its DarkHorse everytime

But the old saying applies to any vehicles......There is no replacement for displacement
Which "I thought" I could bypass with forced induction, but was proved wrong when a large displacement was forced feed.
While Iam sure, no positive, your 114 with a torque cam runs great. I too bought that cam and kit to put into mine. But at the last minute I switched gears and decided on displacement of cubic inches with a cam beats stock displacement with a cam. Sold the cam & kit in the classifieds
But once you feel the available torque, without increasing the revs by dropping acouple gears, you'll see:LOL:

The v-twin, like every internal combustion engine is nothing more than an air pump.....air in-air out
4 valve heads are the way to do that better, trouble was Harley was stuck in the last century. The new Pan America is a great platform......If you have long legs or like dropping your bike regularly.
That motor will bring HD into future with new bikes and hopefully a new touring platform. But I don't have another 30 years waiting for Harley to catch up, so I'll just continue using my bandaid approach

Ride Safe
 

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I was having the same debate between buying another engine or building my current engine. I have a 2017 107 with almost 65k miles. I had stage 2 done when I first bought the bike, it runs great, but I still want a little more. I decided to go with the (128/131) kit because I’ve previously been through the experience of having a second engine to get rid of. My bike is out of warranty so I’m not worried about that at all. I did a lot of research and spoke with quite a few builders. I’m using the Harley kit, adding different valve springs, a Cyclerama cam, S&S oil pump and cam plate, and power vision for the tuner. All the mentioned plus labor is going to cost almost the same as a crate 131, except I’ll have a few better parts, and of course a little more torque and power. As mentioned in some of the above post, do a lot of research, then pick what works best for you.
 
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Once the new motor is in the Road platform, the M8 and all previous versions will officially be a "geezer glide" as only old geezers will still swear an allegiance...and an occasional collector...Ride On!
 

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Once the new motor is in the Road platform, the M8 and all previous versions will officially be a "geezer glide" as only old geezers will still swear an allegiance...and an occasional collector...Ride On!
I agree with you and believe that’s probably going to happen in 23 or 24, but you want something to ride until then. I personally don’t plan to buy another bike until something major……
 
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Once the new motor is in the Road platform, the M8 and all previous versions will officially be a "geezer glide" as only old geezers will still swear an allegiance...and an occasional collector...Ride On!

When that happens, I'll be complaining HD is still using that old antiquated M8 in trikes😁
 

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When that happens, I'll be complaining HD is still using that old antiquated M8 in trikes😁
Once the MOCO gets its sorted, and they will, the air cooled engines will cease to be manufactured by HD or utilized in any platform. Progress...as i say/said, i fully dont expect to buy another new bike, this was my first off the showroom floor, 6 miles. 14k later and happy as ever on my latest Harley. number 6...but this new motor intrigues me, as i read all the stories of all the time and money to get 130 hp out of these monster V-twins that are at their limit...and that's cool, but to be able to get a new RG or any road bike that has 150hp or maybe more, without doing anything? Bet anyone they are going to sell like 5 cent hotcakes...
 

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I was having the same debate between buying another engine or building my current engine. I have a 2017 107 with almost 65k miles. I had stage 2 done when I first bought the bike, it runs great, but I still want a little more. I decided to go with the (128/131) kit because I’ve previously been through the experience of having a second engine to get rid of. My bike is out of warranty so I’m not worried about that at all. I did a lot of research and spoke with quite a few builders. I’m using the Harley kit, adding different valve springs, a Cyclerama cam, S&S oil pump and cam plate, and power vision for the tuner. All the mentioned plus labor is going to cost almost the same as a crate 131, except I’ll have a few better parts, and of course a little more torque and power. As mentioned in some of the above post, do a lot of research, then pick what works best for you.
Curious as to why you feel the need to change valve springs. While SE did have issues with their springs, that has been corrected with the new cnc heads, that come in the kit. Alot of big builds using those heads right out of the box.
I was planning on using Wes's cams, as CycleRama has a very sweet torque plateau. Especially with Darren tuning them.
I got the Star Racing cam, mainly to be different. But George Bryce knows a thing or three about making power
Iam pretty sure I will be visiting Darren to tune my bike, even after I have it done locally.
And when I do, if Darren tells me he can do better with a CR cam.......it's Ramen soup for another month or two for me😄
 

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Once the MOCO gets its sorted, and they will, the air cooled engines will cease to be manufactured by HD or utilized in any platform. Progress...as i say/said, i fully dont expect to buy another new bike, this was my first off the showroom floor, 6 miles. 14k later and happy as ever on my latest Harley. number 6...but this new motor intrigues me, as i read all the stories of all the time and money to get 130 hp out of these monster V-twins that are at their limit...and that's cool, but to be able to get a new RG or any road bike that has 150hp or maybe more, without doing anything? Bet anyone they are going to sell like 5 cent hotcakes...
The EPA is forcing Harleys hand. The EPA and the European EPA forced the death of the TC.
Harley rushed the M8 to market.
Air cooled engines are going the way of dinosaurs. Notice even Porsche is backing away from air cooled.....
But Hell Yeah. Iam excited to finally see a powerful bagger from HD. But knowing Harleys business practices with their Parts & Accessories..... well, you know and do you think they will let that go? Selling a bike that needs nothing, will cost $65,000 from HD🤣
 

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Curious as to why you feel the need to change valve springs. While SE did have issues with their springs, that has been corrected with the new cnc heads, that come in the kit. Alot of big builds using those heads right out of the box.
I was planning on using Wes's cams, as CycleRama has a very sweet torque plateau. Especially with Darren tuning them.
I got the Star Racing cam, mainly to be different. But George Bryce knows a thing or three about making power
Iam pretty sure I will be visiting Darren to tune my bike, even after I have it done locally.
And when I do, if Darren tells me he can do better with a CR cam.......it's Ramen soup for another month or two for me😄
I spoke with Fuel Moto, Moonshine Harley, and a couple of other shops, though the new springs are better they are still having some failures. In my opinion I would probably be ok, but I just feel better going with a known spring with no record of failure, I figure it’s a small price to pay to.
 
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I spoke with Fuel Moto, Moonshine Harley, and a couple of other shops, though the new springs are better they are still having some failures. In my opinion I would probably be ok, but I just feel better going with a known spring with no record of failure, I figure it’s a small price to pay to.
"Scratching head", as when I called FM and inquired what I need to install my cam.....
They sold me lifters, cometic gasket kit and adjustable pushrods....
Guess Who Iam calling Monday morning after my 3rd pot of coffee😂
 
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