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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So... Ive been working with the dealer on a re-curing spark knock issue that I have been experiencing with my bike. Current set up is: VH Pro Pipe HO, VH stage 1 A/C, and the HD stage 1 download. With the help of a new Quality Assurance manager at my dealer, they put the bike on the dyno to check on some things... and almost instantly identified the problem. With my setup the bike is running an air fuel ratio around 15.2. Obviously that needs to come down considerably. The dealer is going to cut me a good deal on a Screaming Eagle Street Performance Tuner and the dyno costs which will help get the bike tuned in.... here is my question:

-Would it be smarter to go with the Screaming Eagle Pro Super Tuner vs. the Screaming Eagle Street Performance Tuner?

-What are the differences/advantages/disadvantages?

-Do both options use the factory narrow band O2 sensors?

-Do you think that the Street Performance Tuner will cover enough ground to get me back on the rich side of things?

Thanks for your input... MIKE

**On a side note... I just realized that maybe I should have posted this in the ECM section... but its also a "trouble shooting" topic... Thanks
 

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Sounds like your steeler is taking you and your wallet for a ride. If your bike truely has the stage 1 download it souldn't be running a 15.2 A/F ratio.
 

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The original problem needs to be fixed before covering it up with a bandaid.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
What could be some potential root causes? It was explained to me that the dealer download can handle certain amounts of "volume" as it pertains to the inflow and outflow... and that my pipe and intake set up pretty much blows that out of the water. Meaning, the HD download can only compensate for so much additional air being introduced. In my case download is not able to add enough fuel to bring my AF in line. Thoughts?
 

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Sounds like they put the wrong download in.
 

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the harley downloads only work with street legal harley parts ie the se aircleaner and the street legal slipons. I think you should go with a TTS mastertune.
 

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The Harley street tuner is the only one that keeps your warrenty good.
but it is only good with se street legal parts so with the vh propipe it won't be worth a hoot. I have the street tuner andit worked well with street thunder slip ons and se air cleaner. Not so well with my supertrapp 2.1 supermeg.
 

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First of all you need to fix the ACTUAL problem with the bike.

If you are really intent on covering the real issue up to give you a rideable bike, you need one of the wide band tuners. I prefer the Dynojet Power Commander with the Autotune option. There are other brands that do wide band as well.

No "loaded tune" is going to work on your bike because you have other issues. Only a wide band tuner will be able to read your overly lean condition and add the needed fuel to fix it.

Nothing Harley makes will do what you need. You need to go aftermarket.
 

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First of all you need to fix the ACTUAL problem with the bike.

If you are really intent on covering the real issue up to give you a rideable bike, you need one of the wide band tuners. I prefer the Dynojet Power Commander with the Autotune option. There are other brands that do wide band as well.

No "loaded tune" is going to work on your bike because you have other issues. Only a wide band tuner will be able to read your overly lean condition and add the needed fuel to fix it.

Nothing Harley makes will do what you need. You need to go aftermarket.
that is not true a race tuner or tts mastertune will work. any capable tuner (like in human tuner) will be able to use narow bands and get him running good.
 

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Try putting back on the O&M air cleaner. If that solves your knock You know exactly what your problem is . Get out of the Rat race at the dealer . Go get the PCV from fuel moto with a preloaded map set up exactly for your bike and MODS.
 
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You can see what I have on my bike and the SE Pro Tuner with auto tune works great.
 

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Nothing Harley makes will do what you need. You need to go aftermarket.

I'll correct this statement now that everyone's got their panties in a bunch.

Nothing Harley makes, IN THEIR STREET LEGAL CATALOG, will do what you need.

You need the RACE tuner that will allow them in to adjust not only the AF mixture but the timing also, the street tuner will not do that. You can band-aid it by just dumping more fuel in it, but that's not the right fix.
 

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I'll correct this statement now that everyone's got their panties in a bunch.

Nothing Harley makes, IN THEIR STREET LEGAL CATALOG, will do what you need.

You need the RACE tuner that will allow them in to adjust not only the AF mixture but the timing also, the street tuner will not do that. You can band-aid it by just dumping more fuel in it, but that's not the right fix.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant as far as keeping a "warranty".

Even still, since there is something else going on with the bike, he really needs a wideband setup. Even a hands on tune with a regular tuner may not entirely help, if things on the bike are inconsistant due to other underlying issues. The wide band will help make needed corrections with changing conditions (if Harley makes a wide band setup then that's fine).
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Thanks. I defenantly don't won't to cover it up... I want it to be right. Sounds like an aftermarket auto tune type set up would be ideal for me. I've been doing a lot of research on the Thundermax and have used a PCV in the past.

Could there be an actual problem with the bike? Or is it just a matter of trying to force a square peg in a round hole?

Great feedback... I appreciate it. Mike
 

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Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant as far as keeping a "warranty".

Even still, since there is something else going on with the bike, he really needs a wideband setup. Even a hands on tune with a regular tuner may not entirely help, if things on the bike are inconsistant due to other underlying issues. The wide band will help make needed corrections with changing conditions (if Harley makes a wide band setup then that's fine).
I am suprised, I thought narrow band tuners like sert and tts mastertune would get him dialed in. I bet there will be lots of pissed off people when they discover they need wide band tuners.
 

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Thats why I said take one step backwards at a time to find the problem. Unless you have bottomless pockets , then take it to some one and say fix it.
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Air ,spark , compression and fuel all work together to form a common bond ' Power' if one out of wack you lose power.

I have a stock AC and tuner ,After market exhaust and it runs great no knock . I'm not lookin' to be first on race day either and I get great fuel economy. 50 mpg hwy.
 

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I am suprised, I thought narrow band tuners like sert and tts mastertune would get him dialed in. I bet there will be lots of pissed off people when they discover they need wide band tuners.
If you read what I wrote smart ass, I said if he's got other issues causing the detonation, his A/F may be inconsistent and changing from mechanical things. A wideband tuner will be able to correct for that on the fly. Most of the other tuners out there don't even use the stock 02s, but even ones that do use the stockers won't help much if his A/F is swinging out of control as narrowband sensors get very inaccurate the farther they get from stoich.
 

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If you read what I wrote smart ass, I said if he's got other issues causing the detonation, his A/F may be inconsistent and changing from mechanical things. A wideband tuner will be able to correct for that on the fly. Most of the other tuners out there don't even use the stock 02s, but even ones that do use the stockers won't help much if his A/F is swinging out of control as narrowband sensors get very inaccurate the farther they get from stoich.
yup that is why I said a human tuner with narrow bands will get him fixed right up. 15.2 is not instant death. Unless you have intimate knowledge of his bike you are pissing in the wind, for all you know he has an intake or exhaust leak. Oh I did read what you said. you said there was something else going with his bike and he needed a wide band tuner.
 
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