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I just went to the dealer to schedule a state inspection and to get a recall done. I inquired about a brake and clutch fluid flush. Got a price of $254. My bike's production date is 3 years ago and I bought it in January of 2017.

I know the manual says flush both every 2 years. Is this a way for them to make money or does it legitimately need to be done every 2 years?
 

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I just went to the dealer to schedule a state inspection and to get a recall done. I inquired about a brake and clutch fluid flush. Got a price of $254. My bike's production date is 3 years ago and I bought it in January of 2017.

I know the manual says flush both every 2 years. Is this a way for them to make money or does it legitimately need to be done every 2 years?
It may not NEED it every two years, but it could EVENTUALLY cause a fail of the ABS module.
 

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I just went to the dealer to schedule a state inspection and to get a recall done. I inquired about a brake and clutch fluid flush. Got a price of $254. My bike's production date is 3 years ago and I bought it in January of 2017.

I know the manual says flush both every 2 years. Is this a way for them to make money or does it legitimately need to be done every 2 years?
It needs to be done. at least on the ABS brakes, that's where not doing it really bites the wallet. You can buy a moisture tester for about $15 and check the moisture content of the fluid. And you also have the option of buying the interface and doing it yourself. Pays off on the second service.
 

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FWIW, I just had the same thing done last week, my dealer charged me a little over $300. (I think it was $324, but not sure). That was for the brakes and clutch, no state inspection.
 

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man, y'all need better dealers. i had my brakes and clutch flushed and they charged me $175, which i thought was fair. but i had people telling me that i overpaid.
 

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That’s leads to the question, does the ABS “really” need to be cycled if the fluid is new??


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man, y'all need better dealers. i had my brakes and clutch flushed and they charged me $175, which i thought was fair. but i had people telling me that i overpaid.
I agree, I was a little pressed for time so I just did it, but I knew I was paying more than I should have. Next time I will go elsewhere.
 

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I just went to the dealer to schedule a state inspection and to get a recall done. I inquired about a brake and clutch fluid flush. Got a price of $254. My bike's production date is 3 years ago and I bought it in January of 2017.

I know the manual says flush both every 2 years. Is this a way for them to make money or does it legitimately need to be done every 2 years?
Dealer did my ABS brake flush for $125, didn't do the clutch (I went 3 yrs)
 

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Yes or your are wasting your time. But many will disagree .


Not saying you’re wrong, not saying you’re right.

I can tell you there are 10 steps in the drain and replace brake fluid section of the service manual. Step 9 is. ABS models: use DIGITAL TECHNICIAN II and perform “ABS service” procedure.

Step 10. Apply brakes to check proper lamp operation.

So what exactly do you consider about swapping the fluid and not cycling the ABS module a waste of time?

What I can tell from the service manual is IF there is fluid in the ABS module and the dealer cycles it with the Digi Tech, there is still at least some old fluid in the system.

So would the same thing happen the first time the ABS system is activated after a fluid change??

I’m sure someone smart on this can give us the real lowdown.


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That’s leads to the question, does the ABS “really” need to be cycled if the fluid is new??


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For what I know, the issue is related on how the abs valve works.
It seems that while the automotive ABS valves open and when engine is off, allowing the fluid to cycle at any start, the HD ABS valves keep close instead, trapping the fluid inside and not recycling at start-up.
In this way moisture might eventually build-up within the valve causing the failure, and this is why HD recommends to flush the valve at least every 2 year. I bought the Diag4bike tool mainly for that and I used also for other issues on both my bikes, it is pricey but it paid itself after a few use considering how much the dealers charge for brake bleeding.
About the clutch flushing, I have to say that at the first 2 years flushing I found the dot4 far more dirty than the brake one, so I feel to recommend to perform the bleeding every 2 year as called by the manual.
 

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Not saying you’re wrong, not saying you’re right.

I can tell you there are 10 steps in the drain and replace brake fluid section of the service manual. Step 9 is. ABS models: use DIGITAL TECHNICIAN II and perform “ABS service” procedure.

Step 10. Apply brakes to check proper lamp operation.

So what exactly do you consider about swapping the fluid and not cycling the ABS module a waste of time?

What I can tell from the service manual is IF there is fluid in the ABS module and the dealer cycles it with the Digi Tech, there is still at least some old fluid in the system.

So would the same thing happen the first time the ABS system is activated after a fluid change??

I’m sure someone smart on this can give us the real lowdown.


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The problem comes when the old fluid is left in the ABS unit. The ABS module is more sensitive than the rest of the system and old deteriorating fluid can gum it up and cause serious issues. by flushing the system and putting in fresh fluid first, you then push that fresh fluid in and old fluid out of the ABS module when the computer activates it. Now you have fresh fluid sitting in the module and the small amount of old fluid that has been pushed out is now in the brake line. That is not a big deal but I know techs that will then re-flush the system to make sure that new fluid is in the entire system. The most important thing is that the old fluid gets purged from the ABS module. Hope this helps.
 

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There's a widget that plugs into the OBD port and works with an Android phone that will do the dealer style ABS flush, that only cost around $200. I can't find the thread - because the search function here sucks - but it's on here somewhere.


Hopefully somebody remembers what/where it is ... As it's a great option for those that don't like getting raped at the dealer.
 

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The problem comes when the old fluid is left in the ABS unit. The ABS module is more sensitive than the rest of the system and old deteriorating fluid can gum it up and cause serious issues. by flushing the system and putting in fresh fluid first, you then push that fresh fluid in and old fluid out of the ABS module when the computer activates it. Now you have fresh fluid sitting in the module and the small amount of old fluid that has been pushed out is now in the brake line. That is not a big deal but I know techs that will then re-flush the system to make sure that new fluid is in the entire system. The most important thing is that the old fluid gets purged from the ABS module. Hope this helps.
I understand what you're saying. I've seen a failed ABS module first hand.

So in theory someone could change out the fluid themselves and either A. Go out and activate there ABS brakes or B. Go to the dealer and ONLY get the system flashed.

Either way it would end with the same results as the dealer doing the complete fluid flush and change and it shouldn't be $175-300.

In my case I'm pretty sure I could get my local guys to flash the ABS for nothing. Just throwing out ideals.
 

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I understand what you're saying. I've seen a failed ABS module first hand.

So in theory someone could change out the fluid themselves and either A. Go out and activate there ABS brakes or B. Go to the dealer and ONLY get the system flashed.

Either way it would end with the same results as the dealer doing the complete fluid flush and change and it shouldn't be $175-300.

In my case I'm pretty sure I could get my local guys to flash the ABS for nothing. Just throwing out ideals.
Yes you could go ride it but you would have to activate your ABS many times to get the fluid through it and at the same time you are putting more wear on your pads. Maybe not a big deal. Not sure if the dealer would do just the purge or not. You would have to check with them. If you have an Indy that has a computer program that will purge the unit then that would be idea. If that is the case I would just let them do the whole service as they might be a lot less expensive than a dealer. Not sure what is involved with your state inspection and what the cost for that part should be but on a brake and clutch fluid flush it shouldn't cost more than $150-$175 tops. Really less than that but I know prices have been increasing. Bottom line is I wouldn't cut corners on the brakes unless I was positive what I was doing was a thorough job.

On a side note... Most people ride very conservative and never even come close to activating their ABS. It may be a good idea to go to a closed course or empty parking lot somewhere and practice using the ABS a few times about once a month. Even do a few slow speed maneuvers while you're there. This will not only get them more familiar with their bikes but it will move fluid through the ABS system on a more regular basis. Just food for thought.
 

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OK, one more time.

There is fluid stored inside of the ABS valve body. The only way to flush it out is to use an eletronic interface to arange the valves in such a way, that the pump flushes out the fluid.

You can not do it by any form of normal bleeding. These areas of the ABS unit are closed off during non ABS event opperation. And even during an ABS event, the valves are not configured in a state that will allow the unit to flush.

Flushing the rear side of the ABS system, how the hell can you duplicate this without the tool?


This is the normal state of the ABS valve body during non ABS event opperation.



Notice that the fluid path runs right through the unit without accessing the ABS components.

Any one who tells you that you can do the service without the electronic part of the process is full of shit. No amount of ABS activation by slamming on the brakes will cause the fluid to flow backwards and flush the unit.

Do you have to do it every other year, probably not. But you should be testing your fluid every fall and servicing it when needed. This is a job best done when the humidity is low, since the fluid can be ruined in less than an hours exposure to high humidity.

Now with all of this said. The flush process is sort of like back washing into a water bottle after you rinse your mouth out. In the desert that will make you water last longer, but its not really the best way to do it. Same goes for the flush, especially on a scooter where the fluid was neglected. IMHO you should flush the system out by bleeding. Vacuum bleeding is far and away the best solution for this. Then run the ABS flush cycle. After that, the fluid from the ABS unit is now mixed in with the rest of the system. So vacuum bleeding it again will give some added benefit.

Also, the MoCo sells a premium brake fluid that has a corrosion inhibitor and some extra lube in it. And they charge a premium price for it. Its the same Dot4 package that Toyota has mandated for years. Just buy dot4 that approved for use in Toyota's.
 

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And there you have it. ^^^^


I stand corrected on riding the bike and activating the ABS to move fluid through the module. I really don't mind learning new things. I was going by a statement that came up in the whole brake fluid flush recall situation that said that since most riders didn't activate their ABS the fluid would just sit in their and go bad. I took this to mean that if you did activate your ABS from time to time that you would help the fluid to move out of there.
 
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