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I was just at my local Harley Davidson dealership today here in Tampa Bay and a service advisor that I have a very good relationship with let me in on something that just came down from HD headquarters to ALL HD dealers.

Starting NOW if anyone brings in their Harley for service and it has any fuel pack other then the Screamin Eagle it will trigger an alert they will void the warranty with includes factory and extended. Normally when you have your bike serviced, including oil changes, most HD Dealers plug in to your diagnostic port. In the past we all knew adding a Fuel pack COULD void the warranty but the word was if you had a good relationship with your dealership they could overlook it. Again this is any HD dealership and may or may not include authorized HD repair shops.

This was brought on by a few customers that mapped their bikes incorrectly which caused engine problems then expected Harley to fix it. The Dealers were also told not to work on the any bike with any FP other then SE, including of course the very popular VH Fuel Pack many of us may or may not have. I can understand why HD resorted to this but it fills as if HD has become yet another corporate company and not the rebel bike builder we have loved and grew up with.

SO BE WARNED map your bike to factory and remove your non SE FP before taking it in for service.
 

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This has really been the MoCo's stance ever since they came out with the M8 in 2017. The difference was that like you say, some dealerships were going against it and making a sale on aftermarket stuff anyway. The MoCo is getting wiser and implementing new techniques to get more dealerships to follow the rules. It's not that HD is going more corporate but more that the EPA is keeping wraps on the company and not letting it slide back to where it was. HD did have to pay some very hefty penalties a few years ago so they are probably a bit gun shy.

On a similar note... I was talking to a friend at a local power sport dealer the other day and he said he has now heard of 2 motorcyclist getting pulled over here in the great state of FL and the cop put the sniffer in the tailpipe to check the emissions level. I don't have any other details like if that is the sole reason they were pulled over or if they were pulled for something else and the cop decided to sheck emissions as well. I hope this isn't where we are headed but in todays world it would not surprise me.
 

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I still wonder how this will play out long term. While the EPA agreement is pretty clear on the issue it seems completely contrary to the law. Magnuson-Moss act is pretty unambivalent that this is unlawful behavior. It seems as if the EPA and the FTC are at odds on this.
 

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I was wonder about them stating an officer used a sniffer in Florida. FL does not have a requirement for vehicle inspections or emissions control inspections. I have done a search to see if I could fine something that would/could justify an officer checking emission output on a vehicle and to what standard/law would the officer site? Now that does not mean there is not something on the books, but it would seem it is not easy for me to find anyway, maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Maybe the officer was checking noise level and as the story progressed, it was changed to emissions levels. Noise level in Florida is something that there are rules about.
 

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Now back to the original post, that is why I did the HD tune. Now, after my warranty is out, (there have been times HD has covered some repairs after the two years. They have done it for me, but it was within the third year and I was the original buyer), I will put any tuner I want on my bike.
 

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Its not Harleys stance. Its the agreement they made with the Feds/EPA over the tampering violations.

Harley dealers are not allowed to service scooters that have non approved tuning devices on them. At the moment only the SE epa tuner is approved by Harley. The dealers are only allowed to install Harley approved maps, and no dyno tunes are allowed. Some dealers follow it to the letter, some sort of see it as a guide line, and some still dyno tune. This dealer probably just got a letter from Milwaukee documenting how many tampered scooters his shop had worked on and how it could effect their ability to order desirable scooters moving forward.

Harley also installed software that reports the state of the ecm to them every time the Tech tool is connected. The software will tell them if you installed an aftermarket remapper on the scooter.

Harley cracked down of some Fla dealers last year during speed weeks, and word was that there would be more enforcement this year. I doubt that the MoCo really has much desire to be policing this, but in exchange for not having their dealer network raped by the EPA, they agreed to do it.

As far as the warranty is concerned, they would have to prove that the tuner caused or contributed to the failure. But that would basically force you to pay a lawyer more than the cost of the repair, and they know it.
 

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This has really been the MoCo's stance ever since they came out with the M8 in 2017. The difference was that like you say, some dealerships were going against it and making a sale on aftermarket stuff anyway. The MoCo is getting wiser and implementing new techniques to get more dealerships to follow the rules. It's not that HD is going more corporate but more that the EPA is keeping wraps on the company and not letting it slide back to where it was. HD did have to pay some very hefty penalties a few years ago so they are probably a bit gun shy.

On a similar note... I was talking to a friend at a local power sport dealer the other day and he said he has now heard of 2 motorcyclist getting pulled over here in the great state of FL and the cop put the sniffer in the tailpipe to check the emissions level. I don't have any other details like if that is the sole reason they were pulled over or if they were pulled for something else and the cop decided to sheck emissions as well. I hope this isn't where we are headed but in todays world it would not surprise me.
I didn't know fl had emissions testing
 

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I was wonder about them stating an officer used a sniffer in Florida. FL does not have a requirement for vehicle inspections or emissions control inspections. I have done a search to see if I could fine something that would/could justify an officer checking emission output on a vehicle and to what standard/law would the officer site? Now that does not mean there is not something on the books, but it would seem it is not easy for me to find anyway, maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Maybe the officer was checking noise level and as the story progressed, it was changed to emissions levels. Noise level in Florida is something that there are rules about.
After reading this I have to say that I was never told it was a police officer I only assumed. They said they were pulled and had the sniffer stuck up the tailpipe. Sorry for the confusion. It could be embellished but I don't know what the motivation would be from the person I talked to.
 

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Me neither and that's why I brought it up here to see if anyone else has any other information to either validate this could happen or if there is no way they do this sort of thing in FL. Could it be just bikes?
I remember when I was in Pennsylvania and they started emissions testing, motorcycles were exempt.
 

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I remember when I was in Pennsylvania and they started emissions testing, motorcycles were exempt.
All PA does with cages is check the obd-II for malfunction codes.

Tail pipe sniffing is pretty old school. ANd it was easy to defeat.

When I lived in MD they were using dynos to test. Ran the car through a simulated road drive and sampled the exhaust as well as checking the ECM. That was a bitch to work around.
 

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All PA does with cages is check the obd-II for malfunction codes.

Tail pipe sniffing is pretty old school. ANd it was easy to defeat.

When I lived in MD they were using dynos to test. Ran the car through a simulated road drive and sampled the exhaust as well as checking the ECM. That was a bitch to work around.
Easy to defeat ? Like sticking the sniffer up an other car's tail pipe you know will pass .:) . Old school, showing my age I guess. :(
 

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Easy to defeat ? Like sticking the sniffer up an other car's tail pipe you know will pass .:) . Old school, showing my age I guess. :(

All it did was test for hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. There were a multitude of ways to pass without actually making the repairs.

The simple trick for those tired old V8s was to just pull the PCV valve out of its gromit and let is suck air. Or move the air pump control line to a manifold vacuum tap, so it pumped air into the exhaust all the time. If you had a little too much cam installed, you could retard the timing the set the idle a little high, it would clean a 3/4 cam right up.

I heard that a $20 bill rubber banded to the gas cap was a guaranteed pass too. Caused the probe to end up laying on the floor instead of in the pipe. Never actually tired it.
 

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I ran into this when I purchased my 17 RGU. I put on the V&H exhaust, tuner and a Ness Breather. Harley dealer told me I voided my warranty. They had no problem putting in the Stage IV kit though. My bike is out of warranty at this point so....it did not really matter.
 

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I have read somewhere, probably in another thread, that any aftermarket tuner can be detected by the dealer even if you return your tune map back to the original Harley stock tune. The ECM records and saves any mod to the stock tune even if you return it to stock temporarily. This applies to 17 and later M8 bikes.
Also Harley recently got fined a second time by the EPA for not monitoring their dealers that ignored the settlement agreement reached between the EPA and the MOCO.
 

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I know Iam REALLY showing my age, but if your so "worried" about your factory warranty, leave the bike stock until such time you are ready to accept the consequences of engine failure. I just don't see how people expect HD to warranty anything that's modified beyond their parts or how it rolled off the assemble line...…….YMMV
 

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Gotta save the original map and upload back to the bike before taking it to the dealer.

Wont work. The ecm keeps a log and reports all the updates back to the mother ship each time it gets hooked up. So they will see exactly what you did.

You could go with a Thundermax, and just keep the unmolested ecm sitting on the shelf.
 

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Wont work. The ecm keeps a log and reports all the updates back to the mother ship each time it gets hooked up. So they will see exactly what you did.



You could go with a Thundermax, and just keep the unmolested ecm sitting on the shelf.
I thought this too but it will still show that the stock ECM was unused for whatever period of miles. Would be harder for them to prove what you actually did during that time though.




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