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In light of my recent warranty fix, i have now learned a couple of things.

1/ The M8 stock lifters are a weak point in the valve train. I have been told this by two H-D employees, a head mechanic at one dealership, and workshop manager with 25yrs experience at another. AND thirdly, by the owner of one of the UK's very few Harley-only enginebuilding workshops (not a chrome parts fitter, an actual engine builder).

2/ The M8 stock lifters are made in Mexico and are the same part, 18538-99C, as used on TCs since about 2010. Many, many failures recorded. Before then, the TC lifters were made in the USA, both 18538-99A (made by Hylift-Johnson) and 18538-99B (Delphi, not quite the same quality but still good). Then H-D decided to get this critical part made cheaper, and problems appeared..

3/ The ''superior'' Screaming Eagle versions are not bulletproof, despite the premium price. My UK engine builder avoids those too after repeated repair jobs for customers who had those, and they failed. Some went through engines requiring complete rebuild. He sent me photo proof. Frankly, he thinks they are junk also

4/ Cam upgrade without changing out the stock lifters is an incident waiting to happen.

When my warranty expires, I am going to be removing the SE lifters fitted to my bike and fitting top-dollar USA-made ones, as I have always done with my Shovel and very early Evo.

Thoughts?
 

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In light of my recent warranty fix, i have now learned a couple of things.

1/ The M8 stock lifters are a weak point in the valve train. I have been told this by two H-D employees, a head mechanic at one dealership, and workshop manager with 25yrs experience at another. AND thirdly, by the owner of one of the UK's very few Harley-only enginebuilding workshops (not a chrome parts fitter, an actual engine builder).

2/ The M8 stock lifters are made in Mexico and are the same part, 18538-99C, as used on TCs since about 2010. Many, many failures recorded. Before then, the TC lifters were made in the USA, both 18538-99A (made by Hylift-Johnson) and 18538-99B (Delphi, not quite the same quality but still good). Then H-D decided to get this critical part made cheaper, and problems appeared..

3/ The ''superior'' Screaming Eagle versions are not bulletproof, despite the premium price. My UK engine builder avoids those too after repeated repair jobs for customers who had those, and they failed. Some went through engines requiring complete rebuild. He sent me photo proof. Frankly, he thinks they are junk also

4/ Cam upgrade without changing out the stock lifters is an incident waiting to happen.

When my warranty expires, I am going to be removing the SE lifters fitted to my bike and fitting top-dollar USA-made ones, as I have always done with my Shovel and very early Evo.

Thoughts?
Dave, I feel the same way about Harley lifters as your technicians have informed You.
When I upgraded the cam in my 12 TC I also changed out the lifters to Comp Cams Lifters after reading and hearing all the horror stories about Harley Lifters.
I have a very good friend that had problems with his lifters on his brand new 13 Ultra CVO that left him stranded in Wyoming.
I hope You have better luck when You get Your Beautiful Glide back.
Mike U.


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S&S lifters would be my choice. Also sounds like the latest HD 2020 oil pump/plate is a must for better scavenging when upgrading a cam. Pump info.: 2020 Oil Pump Upgrade

IMO, on the M8, to go with a better cam will consist of: cam, HD '20 pump/plate, performance lifters, adjustable pushrods. So a pricey upgrade then it was on my '03 twin cam wide glide, considering the new pump alone is about $900.
 

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Been reading some business reports last couple days about Harley and the financial situation of the MoCo doesn’t look too good nowadays. Hate to bash Harley ,but the last thing they should be doing is cutting corners with cheaper parts. Never worried about lifters going bad on my older Harleys. My friend has an 07 Heritage with over 100k miles and only did routine fluid changes. Imo,Harley can’t afford to lose a grip on quality, which I’ve always associated with the brand
 

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they stepped up and fixed mine when they went bad, but it should have never happened.
how many guys only put a few thousand miles on their scoots every year and will have to have teardowns without warranty.
looks like the pencil pushers fucked up again.
sure wish they had as much pride making them as we have buying them.
thanks for the update!
 

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Damn. I was reading this thinking to myself "have i missed something"... I kept reading 'filters', not 'lifters'... IPA's..
After I got my right goggles on, i went back to extract the good info....
thanks.
 

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I have had 2 independent bike builders that I know well tell me that they consider lifters a wear item and they suggest replacing them at a regular interval. Maybe 20-25k on the HD lifters and 30-35k for a good aftermarket lifter. Now I know most will not run out and do this as it can get expensive but, this would be a good reason to use adjustable pushrods for many high mileage riders. Normally I'm not a fan of adjustables but if your goal is racking up miles it could save you some money whenever the need to swap out the lifters comes up. Fairly easy do it yourself job for most.
 

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I have had 2 independent bike builders that I know well tell me that they consider lifters a wear item and they suggest replacing them at a regular interval. Maybe 20-25k on the HD lifters and 30-35k for a good aftermarket lifter. Now I know most will not run out and do this as it can get expensive but, this would be a good reason to use adjustable pushrods for many high mileage riders. Normally I'm not a fan of adjustables but if your goal is racking up miles it could save you some money whenever the need to swap out the lifters comes up. Fairly easy do it yourself job for most.
totally agree with that. i had them install adjustables when they rebuilt it so it would be easier to put a cam in her when the warranty is up.
in my case, the lifter squealed at me when it only had 2500 miles on it.
 

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I have had 2 independent bike builders that I know well tell me that they consider lifters a wear item and they suggest replacing them at a regular interval. Maybe 20-25k on the HD lifters and 30-35k for a good aftermarket lifter. Now I know most will not run out and do this as it can get expensive but, this would be a good reason to use adjustable pushrods for many high mileage riders. Normally I'm not a fan of adjustables but if your goal is racking up miles it could save you some money whenever the need to swap out the lifters comes up. Fairly easy do it yourself job for most.
Running a 110", this is solid advise I have learned. I just went into my cam chest at the end of last season, about 25k miles on the current lifters, and one was pooched and starting to groove the cam. I caught that one in time. All S&S now, including their Quickie push rods. You'll appreciate those Quickies when you need to adjust, believe me.
 

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To muddy the waters more completely,
Feuling website states that only Stock Replacement Length pushrods should be used
"Due to the unstable nature of this 4 valve engine design with 1 rocker arm activating 2 valve springs..."

hey @Thermodyne what say you?

410551
 

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To muddy the waters more completely,
Feuling website states that only Stock Replacement Length pushrods should be used
"Due to the unstable nature of this 4 valve engine design with 1 rocker arm activating 2 valve springs..."

hey @Thermodyne what say you?

View attachment 410551
I guess there could be some extra harmonics going on with the quad valve head. And forsure a non adjustable push rod is the preferred solution.

But with a mild street cam and oem springs on a motor that rarely if ever sees 6500 rpm, I wouldn't worry too much about using adjustable rods.

I would be more concerned with loose valve seats, poor stem height control, and low quality rocker arms.
 

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My lifters are coming out soon , in a few weeks , soon as I order them ... 75000 miles ... Either S&S or Feuling .. If I don't use S&S I feel almost sacreligous doing it , I have kept them afloat for many years .. If you are on a budget though , Hylift-Johnson is hard to beat and can be had for around $70 on Amazon ..

JtB
 

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Enlighten me, I thought adjustable pushrods were to account for the shortened length needed from a higher lift cam. Reuse the stock rods would yield a bent rod. Not having to open the top end is a side benefit.
 

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Main thing for adjustables is if the height between the cylinder and head changes , like a thicker or thinner head gasket , also convenience of not pulling the rocker boxes to change the camchest components ..
 

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My 16 didnt make it 20k when the cheap ass coating that is on the rollers chipped off and caused the lifter to intermittently collapse. When pulled apart the entire cam chest needed rebuilt. Oil pump was scored, debris in the plate. I redid everything for a total cost of 2k. I was out of town and my warranty was up a few weeks prior. But Cycle Solutions did an awesome job. I get they charge show prices. I was just glad they were there.

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My lifters are coming out soon , in a few weeks , soon as I order them ... 75000 miles ... Either S&S or Feuling .. If I don't use S&S I feel almost sacreligous doing it , I have kept them afloat for many years .. If you are on a budget though , Hylift-Johnson is hard to beat and can be had for around $70 on Amazon ..

JtB
If a cam for a Harley is a "bolt in" then it has the same base circle as an oem cam, and can use oem push rods. The distance from the base (off lift) of the lobe to the rocker with the valves closed is the same. With some very high lift cams, the base is lower, requiring a longer push rod. And a cheap way to get more lift from an existing cam is to grind down the base.

Now with that said, some none bolt in cams can still use oem pushrods. As oem valve springs needing to be changed out for high lit springs is also something that makes a cam not a direct bolt in.


410597




R = base height of the cam. And this is what determines push rod length when swapping cams.
 
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