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Discussion Starter #1
Let me start by saying that I like loud and clear music on my bike but what I know about audio systems wouldn’t fill a Monopoly sized thimble. That said, I’m looking for validation of what I was told...

I had a GREAT sound system from Biketronics (great people and great products) for about a year now. BT2250 amp with two 6.5” Hertz Mille Legend speakers. Sounded great around town at about 1/2 volume; and good on the highway 80-100mph but typically had it full blast at the high speeds.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed some static/cracking in the left speaker. Then I washed the bike and after she dried I took it out for a ride and that left speaker was cutting in/out... mostly out. Didn’t let it ruin the ride, I just turned it off and rode on. When I got home I popped the grills and both speakers were blown and I assume the left ruined when I washed the bike and got water under the cone.




In speaking with a few audio sales people several said that the problem wasn’t the speakers or the amp, but pointed to the Stock GT stereo tuning. They said from the factory the stock flash is very bass heavy with virtually no ability to level the sound. They said that the high bass combined with high volumes are most likely the cause of the blown speakers. They said that a digital sound processor (and new speakers) would be all I needed. The Biketronics team, said they didn’t even want to sell me a sound processor. They said new speakers (even trying to get mine covered by warranty - GREAT people to do business with) and a different stereo flash should be sufficient.

Of course, in the end I used it as an excuse to go crazy with a 6 speaker system (Herts MPK 165.3s; Hertz SV 165.1s and Hertz 6x9s with HH25s) and a new amp (Diamond Audio Micro84U 4 channel 660watt) to power them all, but added a Rockford Fosgate DSR1 processor as insurance to hopefully prevent more blown speakers.

So, all of that said, do those of you that actually know what you’re doing in the audio world agree that the speakers probably blew because of the sound levels and the DSR1 should help the new ones? I debated on replacing the deck with the Sony XAV-AX5000 even but the sales people said that the DSR1 with the stock head unit would be a better combination and talked me out of spending more $.

I’m interested in perspectives on the sound processor, but of course feel free to comment on the overall setup I ordered too.
 

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What flash do you have in the bike?

Define full blast: 14/17 bars on the volume or 17/17 bars on the volume?

AVC off or otherwise?

Line levelers in default position or tweaked?

Tons of questions on this one but that will get us started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What flash do you have in the bike?

Define full blast: 14/17 bars on the volume or 17/17 bars on the volume?

AVC off or otherwise?

Line levelers in default position or tweaked?

Tons of questions on this one but that will get us started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bike flash = 03_off.bin

Full blast = 15-17/17 on the highway

AVC = off

Line Levelers = as shipped from Biketronics, I just plugged everything in. Didn’t adjust anything.
 

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IIRC the 02 off bin and 03 off bin both = 4/0 so you should be fine there. The head unit starts to distort at 15 depending on music source. What’s your main source?

Did you ever get a DMM reading at full volume with the bike running by any chance?

If I read your post right you’re running all 3 sets of hertz off the diamond amp? I have the older version 4V2 bridged in my 16 to a set of hertz, but to be honest in 4 channel mode it’s a turd unless you’re running very efficient pro audio stuff that has a sweet spot in lower watts. I love hertz speakers and have them in both bikes, but they are power hungry pigs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #5
IIRC the 02 off bin and 03 off bin both = 4/0 so you should be fine there. The head unit starts to distort at 15 depending on music source. What’s your main source?

Did you ever get a DMM reading at full volume with the bike running by any chance?

If I read your post right you’re running all 3 sets of hertz off the diamond amp? I have the older version 4V2 bridged in my 16 to a set of hertz, but to be honest in 4 channel mode it’s a turd unless you’re running very efficient pro audio stuff that has a sweet spot in lower watts. I love hertz speakers and have them in both bikes, but they are power hungry pigs.


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My main music source is my iPhone plugged into the USB line in the glovebox.

I never did a DMM reading

Yes, all three sets of hertz are planned for the Diamond Micro84U. Four fronts (upper and lower fairing) inline and two rears on the other. I explicitly asked the sales guy if I needed another amp to split 4 fronts on one and the 2 rears on another. He said I shouldn’t and I’d be very happy with the Micro84U driving all 6. If they seem to be under powered when I install them I could plug one set into the Biketronics 2250 amp though as a test since I already have it and it’s already in the bike.
 

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I am not an expert on this but have been in conversations lately with Biketronics as I am installing one of their 4250 amps and the same front speakers. They said to me that the proper bin file needs to be 00_offbin or 08_offbin will also work. 00 is the stock Ultra bin (even though my 19 didn't have that one) and the 08 is a trike bin file. Hope maybe this helps. Hey @roadie13, would you help out us less educated folks or at least me with some tutorial on using a scope or DVOM to tune a system? Maybe what to test, what am I looking for as results and where the leads would go as well as any pertinent parameters such as running in the driveway and what not? Thanks pal, I feel like it's your fault that i bought this amp from my messages with you! >:)
 

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Those Hertz looked like they got hit with a hammer! Dam!
6 speakers, might be time for a DSP to get all you can out of it
 

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So just checked the bin files on mine. The 16 has 00_OFF_Bin and the 18 has 02_OFF Bin. Both were flashed by same tech at same dealer, 16 is RGS and 18 is CVO.

Did you have your dealer flash the bike for 4 speakers / 0 amps or a different configuration? If Mike at BT knew you had the 03_OFF file and there was an issue with it I'm sure he would have steered you away so I'm assuming it's workable.

The iphone is a pretty clean source but will still distort through the USB and bluetooth. I always use a DD-1 distortion meter and have never had an issue at 14/17 and many times 15/17. Above that though the signal is definitely distorting.

Are those the 165.3 or 1650.3?

Definitely going to need both amps. Off the top of my head with the front fairing and lowers in parallel on the 2250 you're still getting about 180W max each to the milles and SV 165. Then bridge the diamond to the 6x9. Do you have crossovers for the tweets? The diamond will fit above the headlight but I'm not sure where to put the DSP and you'll probably need distribution blocks as well.

The DSP will do wonders for the tuning BUT - the 2250 only has one input so the paralleled speakers are going to have to be set up the same which will mean finding a happy medium. If you're one of those guys that it will drive nuts to know that you're operating at less than optimal you may drive yourself crazy tweaking. With the diamond bridged you'll also likely need crossovers because there won't be a separate amp channel available to run the tweets.

Hello DSP pros - please jump in, because I don't have one on my bike, just speculating from what I've learned while deciding whether or not to get one.
 

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I am not an expert on this but have been in conversations lately with Biketronics as I am installing one of their 4250 amps and the same front speakers. They said to me that the proper bin file needs to be 00_offbin or 08_offbin will also work. 00 is the stock Ultra bin (even though my 19 didn't have that one) and the 08 is a trike bin file. Hope maybe this helps. Hey @roadie13, would you help out us less educated folks or at least me with some tutorial on using a scope or DVOM to tune a system? Maybe what to test, what am I looking for as results and where the leads would go as well as any pertinent parameters such as running in the driveway and what not? Thanks pal, I feel like it's your fault that i bought this amp from my messages with you! >:)
Be glad to walk through it with you but the basics are pretty straight forward. Will try to get something more detailed posted tomorrow. In the meantime this is a good thread and tons of stuff on youtube but some of that is really out there.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/audio-systems/1162755-setting-amplifier-gains.html


Most guys with a 2 or 4 speaker setup overthink it way too much. I think I have a terrible ear for music, so I count on the DD-1 to define the edge of the sandbox for me, then I use the multi-meter to get me to about 150% of RMS wattage (provided that number is in the DD-1 sandbox, which it almost always is with a decent speaker) and then I tweak by ear using 2 or 3 songs that I want to sound great. After that I button it up and go ride. After doing multiple installs I've got a pretty good feel for how much I'm going to lose at speed compared to in the driveway and account for that. Most of my setups I don't need to pull the fairing a second time after someone takes a test ride. I always tune with the bike running and fully warmed up. I have jumpers made up of wire leads and stock speaker connectors so I can check the signal at any time on the upstream side of the amp and I always use insulated spade connectors between the amp and speakers so I can easily access for voltage readings if I want to tweak later on. Another set of jumpers also allows me to tie my amp to another bike's speakers or another bike's amp to my speakers. It's an easy way to hear different combinations just by taking the fairing off and not touching speakers or amps. As long as guys haven't messed with their stock wiring it's usually pretty painless and the "what if" game is interesting. I don't have a shop and I'm not a pro by any stretch, I just enjoy doing it and learn something on pretty much every build. Thankfully no one has asked for help with bat wing yet other than tuning post install, the pods look like a nightmare. If someone wants to bring over a few of their favorite brews to share while we work on the bike I'm totally ok with that but I don't charge anyone. It's just something I get a kick out of, wish I had more free time to do it. I really need to quit being a sissy and pick up a DSP to learn that end of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
When I bought everything from Biketronics they had me send them a photo of the 03_off.bin flash screen and said that that one should be fine. I sent them the pictures of the speakers and Donna said that neither she or Mike have ever seen such a thing. I’m sending them back to them tomorrow and they are going to see if they can cover them through a warranty claim. I’ll be surprised if Hertz covers them, but I can’t say enough good things about the Biketronics crew all around.
 

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Plus 1 on Biketronics!! Good people. Nice bike bro.
 

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Good stuff Roadie. I have the DD DSP 2 and Im by no means a expert or even close. I ran the DSP wire into the glove box for easy hook up to laptop. This is my only experience with a DSP, and its not much.
I read as much as I could, but there really isn't much out there for mine and really bikes in general. Alex helped with the initial numbers, which was a huge help and got me going in the right direction.

I kept adjusting mine till I couldn't get it any better. I knew there was still more to be had and made a appointment 2 1/2hrs away to get the final tune. Guy that did the final said I had it about 75%, took him a hour to get the last of it. He had a O-Scope going on and who knows what else. Didn't take the fairing off to adjust the amps, so that was a bonus, pain in the ass!

Tuning with a DSP is a major learning experience. Fun, but I got a little frustrated when I couldn't figure out that last 25%. With all the different things this DSP does, it would take me a long time to figure it all out.

In the end the DSP, with the proper tune, made my system really come alive. If you take that jump Im sure you will see the benefits
 

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Too much POWER I have 4 Millie 1650.3’a with tweeters and run them with line limiter custom crossovers with zobel circuit and BT4180, the 180 I max out and have NO I mean NO issues matter of fact at setting 12 out of 17 on stock head unit they are so loud can ring your ears LOL and that’s at speeds 50-100 and I’ll leave it at that. At 16 setting is @160 watts RMS. At setting 12 it’s @127 watts RMS. Get another pair have 2 parallel them and that BT2250 should be 180 per speaker RMS and you will NOT blow them.
 
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