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Discussion Starter #1
Ok forum... I need something cleared up.

I am thinking of doing pipes, header and air cleaner on my 13 RGC. I was under the impression that if I do all this work that I should purchase a tuner (prefer an auto tuner).

Last night, several people said that isn't necessary. They informed me that all I need to do, is have the stealership download a map to the stock EFI unit.

Am I missing something?? ... I thought that is what an EFI tuner was for.

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You can have the dealer flash the ECM, but you will still be running lean and hot. A tuner will better serve you, if you plan on doing more changes in the future, an auto tuner will be good, you will be able to load a MAP close to the set up you have and the auto tune will do the rest. IMO you should definetly get a tuner.
 

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I'd opt for the tuner (Tmax).
 

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You can have the dealer flash the ECM, but you will still be running lean and hot. A tuner will better serve you, if you plan on doing more changes in the future, an auto tuner will be good, you will be able to load a MAP close to the set up you have and the auto tune will do the rest. IMO you should definetly get a tuner.
+1 on what dbell said. Without a tuner, you will run way to lean, even with a flash from the dealer, and not be happy. Get a tuner, even one of the inexpensive one's from FuelMoto. Call them and they will be very helpful. I run a Power Vision from FuelMoto and really like it.
 

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Tuners and Dealer reprogramming will do the same thing. Except... the dealer is bound by EPA laws that will keep them from doing what you really want. A tuner is not bound by EPA laws, except maybe in California.

What you are doing with the mods is changing the way air/fuel flow into and out of the cylinders. If you do not adjust the amount of gas going in with it, you will not be running very efficiently. The tuner will adjust the amount of fuel to get you to the optimum fuel air ratio. A dealer tune, if they stick to the law, will probably run leaner because that is what it takes for EPA compliance. A basic tuner (no Auto) should be accompanied by a dyno tune, where they will adjust what the tuner does to optimize it to your exact bike. With an Auto Tuner (I have one), you get broadband 02 sensors that give the tuner more data than the stock sensors, and allow it to make the adjustments as you ride. If the tuner senses you are running lean/rich, it will change the amount of fuel being injected. All you have to do is the initial program that gets it close, the Auto Tune does the rest.

Bottom line, IMHO, get a tuner.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This is exactly what I thought.

For now I am planning on slip on pipes, air cleaner and an auto tuner. I am still undecided on which tuner I will go with. I want to plan forward for future changes to the motor, so I don't want to replace the tuner in a year or two, because I purchased something that wasn't capable of using wide band sensors.

Right now I am thinking about PV with CFR slip ones.. But I am still very undecided.

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Good decision... I think you will be much happier with a tuner than a flash from the dealer. Yea you bike would run, but not as efficiently as with a tuner. Good luck as you move forward.

Rowdy
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the advise
 

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Tuners and Dealer reprogramming will do the same thing. Except... the dealer is bound by EPA laws that will keep them from doing what you really want. A tuner is not bound by EPA laws, except maybe in California.
EPA mandates at Federal level. Tuners are bound by EPA laws, hence "for off road use" labels. So technically they are illegal. But we all know this is rarely enforced - even in California.
 

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Nice bike toogood8p, went with PV and jackpot 2-1 fuel moto ac in one pkg for a good price, very happy, and as a bonus the 2-1 will keep me from ordering color match streched saddle bag lowers.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Zak...

When I do the headers...I will have to decide on X pipe vs true duals. I like the look of the dual pipes, so I will be definitely staying with that.
 

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I agree, going with a tuner (even on a stock bike) is the way to go. I'd talk to whoever you plan on getting to do the future engine mods and go with thier recomendation for a tuner. They're the ones that will be tuning it.

Stephen
 

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I just installed the Fullsac X pipe. Seems to deliver more torque and power than true duals. Looks factory. Using the stock heat shields. A tuner is a wise decision. Choose your poison and go for it.
 

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You've already received a lot of good advice from these guys. For what it's worth, I thought I'd share my recent findings...

I put on a full system and a breather. Had the dealer flash the ecm before I left. Thought was fine. Did some research related to some other issues I was trying to fix (throttle lag). Ended up ordering a PV from Fuel Moto. Couldn't be happier. I didn't realize how lean it was running until I flashed Jamie's map. Throttle response is better. Very little decel popping. Runs smoother and cooler. I've been very happy so far. There were cheaper tuners but went with PV because I am going to do cams this winter or next. Like that I can get a new map from FM and then just auto tune if needed.

Good luck.
 

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Just to Play Devils Advocate here and by the way I agree with everyone to buy your own tuner. You will be much happier.

However, As long as the bike is not hooked up to a gas analyzer, the dealer if they are willing to, or are unscrupulous, or wanting to provide good customer service (giving the customer what they want ) dependent on your outlook.

They can tune the bike the way you want by falsely inflating the VE tables and playing with the Fuel Bias they can make the bike look as if it is running lean at 14.7 or what ever and actually be running richer. I think the only way to catch that would be with a gas analyzer.

But then again I could also just not understand the whole scheme of things too. ;)
 
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