Road Glide banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,732 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had the HD auto primary adjuster in and replaced it about 7000 miles ago , with the Hayden auto adjuster , had a little comp rattle before the swap .. The last couple weeks the comp had started rattling really bad at shut off and was hard doing a hot start ..

Having ESP , I decided to go in and pull the Hayden and replace with the standard issue and take it in this weekend and let them swap it out with ESP ..

Well one week of hot riding , stop and go and a good mix of it all , no comp issues at all :surprise:

Go Figger ..

I have deducted that with the lube issues , it is a good idea not to put 32 oz in the primary like I and many others have been known to do , now I fill it up to right at the derby lip ..


If this continues , I think I will at every oil change , pull the primary and pull the adjuster and reinstall , resetting the adjuster fully back , figure maybe doing that every five k instead of letting it go for ever and constantly tightening , may help some ..
JtB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,046 Posts
The compensator in my '15 CVO Ultra with only 3700 miles clatters like a threshing machine at idle when hot,
and it's fairly easy to make it clatter when pulling away from a stop.
The idle with the 255 cams is pretty snotty sounding, which translates in to a lot of compensator motion.
Finally got around to buying the new license for my Power Vision, gonna do some playing to see if I can clean up the idle a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
I just installed the new SE comp and I can hear it rattle when the idle dips. Got about 38k out of the last one and I don't think I'll get half that out of this one...
 

·
Registered
2021 Ducati Multistrada V4S
Joined
·
4,476 Posts

I have deducted that with the lube issues , it is a good idea not to put 32 oz in the primary like I and many others have been known to do , now I fill it up to right at the derby lip ..

JtB
This may be a stupid question but... Is there not any issue with the clutch slipping with too much oil in the primary? I really don't know that's why I'm asking. I had some slippage on my last bike and checked the fluid level and it was all the way up to the lip. drained it and put the 32oz. back in and no more slipping. May not have been the issue but it seemed to be the fix at the time.

Ken~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,388 Posts
This may be a stupid question but... Is there not any issue with the clutch slipping with too much oil in the primary? I really don't know that's why I'm asking. I had some slippage on my last bike and checked the fluid level and it was all the way up to the lip. drained it and put the 32oz. back in and no more slipping. May not have been the issue but it seemed to be the fix at the time.

Ken~
Harder finding neutral too with too much oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,388 Posts
I had the HD auto primary adjuster in and replaced it about 7000 miles ago , with the Hayden auto adjuster , had a little comp rattle before the swap .. The last couple weeks the comp had started rattling really bad at shut off and was hard doing a hot start ..

Having ESP , I decided to go in and pull the Hayden and replace with the standard issue and take it in this weekend and let them swap it out with ESP ..

Well one week of hot riding , stop and go and a good mix of it all , no comp issues at all :surprise:

Go Figger ..

I have deducted that with the lube issues , it is a good idea not to put 32 oz in the primary like I and many others have been known to do , now I fill it up to right at the derby lip ..


If this continues , I think I will at every oil change , pull the primary and pull the adjuster and reinstall , resetting the adjuster fully back , figure maybe doing that every five k instead of letting it go for ever and constantly tightening , may help some ..
JtB
JB, are you going to keep using the oem chain tensioner and trash the Hayden ?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,732 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
ESP has some clauses in it regarding modifications .. So they could claim the Hayden as an unacceptable modification or some such and deny the claim .. Not a real issue with me , the bike has been out of warranty for two and a half years .. I don't know if or how Magnuson Moss approaches something like ESP ..

I never had an issue with the clutch slipping before with a lot of fluid in there , not saying some don't ..

JtB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,388 Posts
So will using the Hayden void the warranty? Is the Magnuson/Moss Act not in play here?
Magnuson Moss pertains to manufactures warranty only not esp.. ESP has stipulations written in like JB said.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,454 Posts
On the 07 and later models it called for 38 fl oz of lubricant in the primary when doing a oil change so maybe you should have been putting in a little bit more oil.
With the oiling problems of the older style SE compensators it would seem that less oil then what is recommended would just cause the compensator to go out sooner.
I too took the hayden primary chain tensioner out of the bike and went back too the OEM tensioner but it wasn't because of the warranty.
To me the primary chain seemed to tight with the Hayden chain tensioner, my primary chain was as tight as a banjo string using the Hayden tensioner.
I kind of wondered on how the OEM tensioner could over tighten the primary chain when the top of the primary chain would have some "sag" in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,455 Posts
On the 07 and later models it called for 38 fl oz of lubricant in the primary when doing a oil change so maybe you should have been putting in a little bit more oil.
With the oiling problems of the older style SE compensators it would seem that less oil then what is recommended would just cause the compensator to go out sooner.
I too took the hayden primary chain tensioner out of the bike and went back too the OEM tensioner but it wasn't because of the warranty.
To me the primary chain seemed to tight with the Hayden chain tensioner, my primary chain was as tight as a banjo string using the Hayden tensioner.
I kind of wondered on how the OEM tensioner could over tighten the primary chain when the top of the primary chain would have some "sag" in it.
The problem with the stock tensioner was it only goes tighter. It is a ratchet up, never down. It tends to over ratchet up and leaves the chain too tight. That is what causes bearing failure.

The Hayden is spring loaded. That slack you see with the stock tensioner is the "compensation" needed to allow the chain to flex. The stock tensioner has no flex, none! It is all in the chain slack. You do not need that slack with the Hayden because of the springs. It is the springs that provide the "compensation" for chain flex, so it can run at a more consistent tension. It also is not capable of overtension if you follow the installation instructions. No overtension, less chance of bearing failure.

As to how it gets to tight with the stock tensioner? That sag you see at the top is not there when you are running. The engine pull is taking all that slack, and moving it to the bottom. When that bottom slack gets to be too much, the stock tensioner ratchets up a notch. The problem is, that chain is slapping all over the place when you ride, and sometimes the tensioner ratchets when it should not. Remember, it only goes up, never back down. So, when it ratchets when it should not, it is now in an overtension mode, taking too much slack out of the chain.

The Hayden springs take out a lot of the chain slap that happens (makes the bike run quieter too). When you need to tension up, springs push up. When you need to tension down, springs compress, then return. If you set it up right, according to the installation instructions, you always have the proper amount of tension on the chain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,454 Posts
I am fully aware of the way both chain tensioners work.
But the only advantage of the Hayden is that there is "NO"slack in the primary chain and it will eliminate primary chain noise. With the Hayden the primary chain is tighter than with the OEM tensioner putting excess strain on the compensator and the clutch hub bearing.

If the stock primary chain tensioner only ratchets up (which it does) and over tightens the primary chain then why is there slack in the top of the primary chain??? If the OEM tensioner over tightens the primary chain then there would not be any slack in the primary chain it would be as tight as a banjo string just like the Hayden.
To me it would seem that the slack in the primary chain is a indicator that the chain is not over tighten and there is less pressure put on the clutch hub bearing.

Sure HD has had a problem with the clutch hub bearings but is the Hayden the fix or not?
I think not because the real problem is that HD changed bearing suppliers and are using inferior bearings or the owners of the bike do not follow proper maintenance procedures.
The compensators have always been a problem on the 07 and later touring model bikes and the problems have been ramp angle and weak springs in the earlier 96" compensators and the SE compensators suffer from oiling issues but neither of these problems are a result of a OEM or Hayden primary chain tensioner.
I used the OEM chain tension and the Hayden chain tensioner in my 2008 and 90,000 of the 100,000 miles the OEM chain tensioner was used and I am still using the original clutch hub bearings and primary chain, the bike is on its 2nd SE compensator which was put in over 40,000 miles ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,046 Posts
If the stock primary chain tensioner only ratchets up (which it does) and over tightens the primary chain then why is there slack in the top of the primary chain??? If the OEM tensioner over tightens the primary chain then there would not be any slack in the primary chain it would be as tight as a banjo string just like the Hayden.
To me it would seem that the slack in the primary chain is a indicator that the chain is not over tighten and there is less pressure put on the clutch hub bearing.

If you open your primary cover and find slack in the top run of the chain your stock tensioner has not "over" ratcheted. Problem is, many people have opened their primaries to find NO slack with the chain, much like you see with the Hayden, except that the chain is TIGHT with no way to loosen. This condition WILL destroy crankshaft, clutch and transmission bearings.
A lot of people freak when they see the chain on a Hayden equipped primary. It looks tight, it has simply had the slack taken out WITH the ability to move as needed against the tensioner springs.
It's my understanding that the latest Haydens have been shipped with slightly softer springs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
IMO people way over estimate the load the stock tensioner puts on the crank and primary bearings. If you think that's tight, consider the chain tensions while you are doing a full throttle pass up a hill, or a burn out. I think a 100+ Hp will load it a lot more.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top