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Discussion Starter #1
I finally got around to install the exhaust on the '15 CVORGU, so I had my dealer put in a SERT and Dyno it; results 92hp / 108tq. The exhaust I have is CFRs with S&S Power True Duals. I've ran CFRs on my last 3-4 bikes, but this is my 1st experience with S&S; normally run V&H Dresser Duals with the CRFs. Anyway, I'm seeing '15 103s with Stage 1 get this kind of numbers. Additionally, I'm not crazy about the sound of this combo as I think the H-crossover muffles the sound and is not as loud as with V&H dresser duals. I know I loose HP/Tq with CFRs, but I was expecting better numbers; even the HD folks that tuned it was not impressed with the S&S headers. Guess I'll just order some dresser duals, get it dyno'd again, and put these S&S up for sale.
 

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A good 2-1 will give you some good numbers. You can run a ghost pipe if that's the look you like.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
A good 2-1 will give you some good numbers. You can run a ghost pipe if that's the look you like.
I agree and I'll have to look at some with ghost pipes, but I have to get over the some personal hurdles with the sound of 2-1s.


Did you dyno it before you changed out your exhaust?
Unfortunately I didn't
 

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Discussion Starter #6
CFRs are tough to tune. How much confidence do you have in the person doing the tune?
Both the Service Manager and tuner are real good friends of mine, so my confidence is high.

BTW: Here were the numbers from my last CVO (2010 Ultra running CFRs, V&H dresser duals, and ventilator intake:

95.9 HP and 122.2 Torque.

This is what I was expecting to be around.
 

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I'm running second generation CFR's with Fulsac 2-1-2 and TTS on a 12' 103.

#'s are 89HP/110TQ

I would think you would have better #'s.
 

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for reference I have a 2013 RG Custom with VH power duals headers and CFR mufflers, SE heavy breather, SE 255 cams ( I believe those are the cams still on 15 CVOs, they were on previous touring CVOs) and at 5,280 feet elevation in Denver it put down 80 hp 101 tq. The before and after graphs is huge and much smoother, power comes on much sooner and stays on later. Your numbers dont seem too bad for your setup. I do think different headers would get you a few more ponies on the dyno but you may not even feel that when riding so not sure I'de spend the money to swap it out. Also remember every dyno is different so the gain from before the tune and after is the main thing. If you look at the dyno graphs Fuel Moto posts on pre 2015 sharks with stage 1, or stage 2, or even 107 kits you will be amazed. I think their dyno reads a lil happy if you know what I mean. Lastly yes you will leave a few ponies on the table with CFR's but are the best sounding pipes :)
 

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You really should check out the Wild Things Power Cell/ Crusher Mellow exhaust. With that combo im making 110TQ/100 HP with just a mild cam and a tune.
 

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Both the Service Manager and tuner are real good friends of mine, so my confidence is high.

BTW: Here were the numbers from my last CVO (2010 Ultra running CFRs, V&H dresser duals, and ventilator intake:

95.9 HP and 122.2 Torque.

This is what I was expecting to be around.
I see that your 2010 had intake mods (I assume it was a stage 1) but in the OP you didn't list any intake mods.
Could this be one reason the numbers were different?

Just because you friends work at a HD dealer doesn't mean they know how to tune a bike correctly. But I do understand in your confidence in their abilities.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What was the temp and humidity when the dyno was done? also does this dyno normally read low? Not all dyno's are the same.
Temp was 76 at 59% ... dyno attached


I see that your 2010 had intake mods (I assume it was a stage 1) but in the OP you didn't list any intake mods.
Could this be one reason the numbers were different?
Nope as it comes with an open intake.
 

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The HD 110 is not a very powerful motor with standard mods. Just like the 103, you have to get into the workings of it to get it going. If you look in the SE parts catalog, you'll see that the 103 stage IV kit gets you better dyno numbers than the kit to bump up your motor up to the 110.

Just my 2¢


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

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I would disagree about the head pipe being the issue. Can tell you first hand the S&S ( KW) head pipe is not the problem. Its the muffler.Real world testing with dyno sheets showing back to back runs , swapping mufflers and re tuning for each have proven how poor performance wise the CFR really is.

This is nothing new what so ever. That same head pipe with a decent muffler will pick right up and have zero tq dip.. Please do not take it personal its not. its just data nothing more, The CFR muffler is a bad gamble in most performance shops opinion in the performance arena , it looks great and sounds good. but thats it.. IF you are looking to increase performance look else where.

92 hp and 108 tq is right on par with a stock 110 bike in stage one form. The tq curve though is incorrect due to the muffler. HP for a 110 is 89-94 and tq 107-111 is the basic range based on several hundred tunes. The wet head is same as the older version performance wise.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I would disagree about the head pipe being the issue. Can tell you first hand the S&S ( KW) head pipe is not the problem. Its the muffler.Real world testing with dyno sheets showing back to back runs , swapping mufflers and re tuning for each have proven how poor performance wise the CFR really is.

This is nothing new what so ever. That same head pipe with a decent muffler will pick right up and have zero tq dip.. Please do not take it personal its not. its just data nothing more, The CFR muffler is a bad gamble in most performance shops opinion in the performance arena , it looks great and sounds good. but thats it.. IF you are looking to increase performance look else where.

92 hp and 108 tq is right on par with a stock 110 bike in stage one form. The tq curve though is incorrect due to the muffler. HP for a 110 is 89-94 and tq 107-111 is the basic range based on several hundred tunes. The wet head is same as the older version performance wise.
Thanks for the info and I never take anything personal. Friday I have an appointment to put it back on the dyno and work out the decel popping I have at low RPMs (below 2500). And your right, I've found out those numbers are pretty average for a stage 1 CVO, so I'll forget about the numbers and just ride.
 

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Thanks for the info and I never take anything personal. Friday I have an appointment to put it back on the dyno and work out the decel popping I have at low RPMs (below 2500). And your right, I've found out those numbers are pretty average for a stage 1 CVO, so I'll forget about the numbers and just ride.

I've ben told that a decel popping at around 2k and below is nothing to worry about and is normal. I asked 2 different reputable tuners and they both said the same thing. Maybe others here can verify or shed some insight.
 

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I've ben told that a decel popping at around 2k and below is nothing to worry about and is normal. I asked 2 different reputable tuners and they both said the same thing. Maybe others here can verify or shed some insight.
A properly tuned bike should not have any decal popping. Or to put it another way a bike set up with good matching components, ie intake, exhaust, cam timing, compression and a good tune shouldn't have decal popping. My build is a mild 103, stock compression, Tman 555 tqster cam, tuned by Russell Inglis at Lone Wolf Performance. I cant make it pop on decal even when I try.
 

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That is correct, decel popping at any rpm is not normal and it is a sure sign that the tune is not correct.
I have the T-max tuner in my bike and I haven't dyno tuned my bike since the T-max was installed and I never have any popping on decel, I have made AFR and timing adjustments on the bike with the T-max tuner and I never could get the bike to pop on decel.
When I used the SERT I had the bike dyno tuned and the bike didn't pop on decel either.
Popping on decel is a sign that the AFR is off.

Even tough your bike has a open intake HD does make a SE stage 1 air intake kit for that bike so that means the intake is not as open as it could be.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
A properly tuned bike should not have any decal popping. Or to put it another way a bike set up with good matching components, ie intake, exhaust, cam timing, compression and a good tune shouldn't have decal popping. My build is a mild 103, stock compression, Tman 555 tqster cam, tuned by Russell Inglis at Lone Wolf Performance. I cant make it pop on decal even when I try.
That is correct, decel popping at any rpm is not normal and it is a sure sign that the tune is not correct.
I have the T-max tuner in my bike and I haven't dyno tuned my bike since the T-max was installed and I never have any popping on decel, I have made AFR and timing adjustments on the bike with the T-max tuner and I never could get the bike to pop on decel.
When I used the SERT I had the bike dyno tuned and the bike didn't pop on decel either.

Popping on decel is a sign that the AFR is off.

Even tough your bike has a open intake HD does make a SE stage 1 air intake kit for that bike so that means the intake is not as open as it could be.
Agree and if you look at the HP/Tq dips at the lower RPMs, the AFR goes below the dotted line. I'll have those areas looked at tomorrow.

 
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