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I was told by the sales guy that if I connect a V&H FP3 I can void my warranty. How could they tell I had or have one on if I default back to default settings?
 

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The MoCo policy is that any non Harley tuner voids the power train warrantee. And they claim to be able to tell if a piggy back tuner has been installed, even if removed later.

Not sure how it would go if you took them to court. If they can in fact detect it, then I'm sure they can document it easy enough. And there would be that illegal activity to get past. Tampering and such.
 

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I was told yes by my dealership. Any tuner except the HD one will void it.


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Unless I am missing something, they cannot simply say that your warranty would be void... they would have to prove that the tuner itself is what caused the catastrophic failure of a component. i.e. if your drive belt broke suddenly due to abnormal wear, they would have to prove your tuner caused it and not something else. I'm also sure you could make the argument between the FP3 and the Harley Tuner- what's the difference between both tunes and why is one warrantied and one is not?
 

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It's due to the EPA deal they made. That tuner changes the EPA certification on the 2017 and up motorcycles. Some dealers aren't being as tough on it but they can get fined if they get caught. I have a 2016 and wouldn't touch a 2017 and up because of the EPA deal but that's just me.
 

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RoadglideinMO seems to have it right. I’ve talked to two dealers I’ve used for service. One will not install any tuner but HD and if warranty issue is tied to the tuner they will void it. However, if you have an unrelated issue the warranty will be fine. The other dealer (wonder which service department I’ll be going to) installs V&H because their customers want it and will fight to make sure the customer gets their warranty coverage. Guy I met at the dealership had just picked up his new 17 with V&H complete exhaust and a heavy breather with FP3 tuner. All of it was installed by the dealer.

All that said, if you’ve read the EPA settlement... the MOCO is required to void warranties. The individual dealer though...


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I don't have any knowledge on these tuners, but I have a bit of experience on Auto tuners..... most of the time the "tuner" will leave behind a trail, usually on the auto tuners that I've dealt with, that comes in the form of showing a reset of the ECM if/when plugged into a scanning tool. So, when a dealership plugs the motorcycle in, they would be able to see a "reset" was made to the ECM, however as long as you return the motorcycle to the stock tune, the cannot detect WHAT was done.

A lot of auto guys get around this and simply tell the dealerships that they have a scan tool that they hook up on occasion to look at codes etc. Dealerships have no choice but to accept that as they cannot see what/if any changes were made.

Can anyone confirm if the scooter tuners operate on the same basis as Auto tuners?


The MoCo policy is that any non Harley tuner voids the power train warrantee. And they claim to be able to tell if a piggy back tuner has been installed, even if removed later.

Not sure how it would go if you took them to court. If they can in fact detect it, then I'm sure they can document it easy enough. And there would be that illegal activity to get past. Tampering and such.
 

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I was told by the sales guy that if I connect a V&H FP3 I can void my warranty. How could they tell I had or have one on if I default back to default settings?
look up harley consent decree. the entire thing is available online.

from what i read the moco has to void the warranty of any 2017-2018 bike that does not meet state epa specs. if they do they are subject to a fine.

"14. Denial of Warranty.
a. Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle (Model Year 2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any Defendants have any
information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA."

i'm not a lawyer; i didn't read the whole thing; there's a lot more in the decree.
 

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I don't have any knowledge on these tuners, but I have a bit of experience on Auto tuners..... most of the time the "tuner" will leave behind a trail, usually on the auto tuners that I've dealt with, that comes in the form of showing a reset of the ECM if/when plugged into a scanning tool. So, when a dealership plugs the motorcycle in, they would be able to see a "reset" was made to the ECM, however as long as you return the motorcycle to the stock tune, the cannot detect WHAT was done.

A lot of auto guys get around this and simply tell the dealerships that they have a scan tool that they hook up on occasion to look at codes etc. Dealerships have no choice but to accept that as they cannot see what/if any changes were made.

Can anyone confirm if the scooter tuners operate on the same basis as Auto tuners?
Not that it matters any more, mine is long out of warrantee, but my ecm is in a box on the shelf. At the time, I was more concerned about the Obama administration implementing nation wide emissions testing on all motor vehicles.
 

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Just an aside, the FPS stores the factory map so that you can return the bike to "factory specs" prior to taking it in for repairs. As was stated earlier, that should only apply to any component "Controlled " by the map/ecu. If it's a hard part from , Oh I'm just spitballin' here, say fuel control, timing, throttle response, fuel mapping ect, Then a quick reload of the stored factory map should be sufficient to cover you should the dealer ask. Since the FP3 is a plug n play device, meaning that once you're satisfied with your tune, you can remove it from the bike, No one should be the wiser. With that said, it will be on the owner either way if the dealer wants to raise hell. Just go the route you're most comfortable with and live with your decision.
 

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I probably don't have warranty any longer due to my choice of tuner and exhaust. Power Vision tuner and a D&D 2-1 exhaust, no cat. Stage III, 117" engine. She will run though...:surprise:
 

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Just an aside, the FPS stores the factory map so that you can return the bike to "factory specs" prior to taking it in for repairs. As was stated earlier, that should only apply to any component "Controlled " by the map/ecu. If it's a hard part from , Oh I'm just spitballin' here, say fuel control, timing, throttle response, fuel mapping ect, Then a quick reload of the stored factory map should be sufficient to cover you should the dealer ask. Since the FP3 is a plug n play device, meaning that once you're satisfied with your tune, you can remove it from the bike, No one should be the wiser. With that said, it will be on the owner either way if the dealer wants to raise hell. Just go the route you're most comfortable with and live with your decision.
Not so. Restoring the factory map will not help you. The ECM records information that can be gathered by HD which allows them to determine if it has been flashed by a non harley tuner.
 

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14. Denial of Warranty.
a. Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle (Model Year 2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any Defendants have any information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA.
b. Defendants shall instruct Harley-Davidson dealers to deny such warranty
claims where any Defendant or any Harley-Davidson dealer has any such
information.
c. No later than December 31, 2016, Defendants shall ensure that their
warranty policies and product literature state that Defendants will deny warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle, Model Year 2017 or later, that was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order, or otherwise approved by EPA.

This is copied from the consent decree. It does not say that powertrain failures have to be caused by a tuner, just that the bike has been tuned with a non EPA compliant tuner.
 

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Sounds like a load of crap to me.

My RGS is a 2015 model but my dealer is the one that suggested using a V&H FP-3 unit when I did my stage one & stage two upgrades.

I would look for another dealership if it was me.

They just want you to purchase the HD fuel tuner I'm sure, right.

Swomack
The decree only applies to 17 and later models so you were good with a 15.
 

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Unless I am missing something, they cannot simply say that your warranty would be void... they would have to prove that the tuner itself is what caused the catastrophic failure of a component. i.e. if your drive belt broke suddenly due to abnormal wear, they would have to prove your tuner caused it and not something else. I'm also sure you could make the argument between the FP3 and the Harley Tuner- what's the difference between both tunes and why is one warrantied and one is not?
I copied the consent agreement above. 17 and later models, no proof that the tuner caused the problem is necessary. Just that a non compliant tuner was used.
 

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All the unknown about what someone might get by with and might not, is why I decided to use a Harley tuner. Is it the best out there, most likely not as the range of adjustment is less than after market. I decided I did not want to get an issue when traveling and have to go to a dealer that does not know me. I wanted the full use of the warranty just in case I needed it. I have the stage 1 air filter, street cannnons and the Harley tuner and I am happy with the results. Now when my warranty is out, I can always decide if I want to change something.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
FLTRXS18 How do you like your Harley street tuner. Did you have to buy anything else with it, like cables? did you tune the bike yourself? does Harley supply adequate maps?
 
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