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Well the numbers are better than expected. But I don't know the difference between SAE and smoothing. So the SAE numbers are probably a bit lower. 100hp & 116tq.

I thought the flat spot from 2500-2800rpm was the tune, but it's the cam. Some of you told me this wasn't a low end cam, and you are right. It doesn't come on until about 3000rpm and then pulls hard.

But it's in there now, and I may do heads and Pistons later so I'll be all good. Another tune man telling me the PCV isn't great, they recommend the TTS and they are well respected in the twin cities. Maybe change that next year. Runs good for now.:grin:
 

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Totally stock 103" otherwise?

You can swap out the head gaskets for cometic .030 ones and that will help the bottom end by increasing the compression a little. That should help. Those cams need a bit more compression.
 

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Looks good Brian! The TTS allows us to adjust many more parameters within the ECM and the PCV allows only fuel and spark control.
You'll find after a complete Dyno tune with the TTS that you'll feel a much more responsive bike and not such a throttle delay and soft torque below 3500. Enjoy what you have now and once you become bored with it and want more come see us! Think Spring!


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Looks good Brian! The TTS allows us to adjust many more parameters within the ECM and the PCV allows only fuel and spark control.
You'll find after a complete Dyno tune with the TTS that you'll feel a much more responsive bike and not such a throttle delay and soft torque below 3500. Enjoy what you have now and once you become bored with it and want more come see us! Think Spring!


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And also with the TTS or Direct Link you can lean out the cruising area for gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
 

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Dyno results 103" TW-777 cams

Actually, you can adjust all fuel parameters for cruising with the PCV or PC3. Your not locked into any certain AFR as its adjustable with the VE table. If you look at your map, you'll notice different throttle positions and they coincide with each Rpm.
To adjust adjust AFR in the cruise area you need only note your throttle positions and rpm, typically 5-15% throttle and 2200-3000 RPM. I usually set that area between 13.9-14.3 AFR depending on the build.


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Actually, you can adjust all fuel parameters for cruising with the PCV or PC3. Your not locked into any certain AFR as its adjustable with the VE table. If you look at your map, you'll notice different throttle positions and they coincide with each Rpm.
To adjust adjust AFR in the cruise area you need only note your throttle positions and rpm, typically 5-15% throttle and 2200-3000 RPM. I usually set that area between 13.9-14.3 AFR depending on the build.


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Absolutely, what I was saying and didn't finish was along with being able to set the timing right along with this with a good dyno man is the best of all worlds. I agree with you 100%. I've used the Thundermax and the Power Commander with good success, but nothing beats a fine tuned bike by a good dyno guy.

Also, too many people get wound up with peak hp numbers which is where we never ride. Torque and hp from 2500 rpm and up will give you the best seat of the pants go power and please even the most picky rider.
 

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If you are running the CFR mufflers listed in your sig, I can say without question that is what is causing the lack of low end power, it's not the cam. We not only helped Bobby Wood develop the pattern for the TW-777 cam, we also use them day in day out. A muffler swap an some fine tuning would make a world of difference, as much as 20-30% on the torque side down at 2500 RPM
 

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If you are running the CFR mufflers listed in your sig, I can say without question that is what is causing the lack of low end power, it's not the cam. We not only helped Bobby Wood develop the pattern for the TW-777 cam, we also use them day in day out. A muffler swap an some fine tuning would make a world of difference, as much as 20-30% on the torque side down at 2500 RPM
Good #s !

Like Jamie said, ditch the CFRs...

The PC-V is fine, might do a little tweeking after you change the muffs...

I'd ask Jamie what muffs he recommends with your set-up, he probably has a map (for the PC-V) to go with them.
 

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The 777 cams in a stock compression 103 leave a lot to be desired below 3000. They seem to get a lot of good press. However, I suspect it's like all the other upgrade goodies. The posts are all excitement on day one. Never hear back after the newness wears off.
 

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Exhaust choice can/will make as much difference in a combination as the cam. One needs to look at the big picture when putting a selection of parts together, each component needs to complement the next. They dyno chart below is from one of our dealers that tuned one of our FM 107 kits with TW-777 cams, it shows the difference between what a set of mufflers can do.

Run #17 was with Bassani DNT mufflers, these are large open mufflers (very similar to CFR's), and Run #20 is with Crusher mufflers with standard baffles. Both setups got full dyno tunes. There is a difference of 20+Tq in the lower RPM's just from a muffler swap.

 

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Exhaust choice can/will make as much difference in a combination as the cam. One needs to look at the big picture when putting a selection of parts together, each component needs to complement the next. They dyno chart below is from one of our dealers that tuned one of our FM 107 kits with TW-777 cams, it shows the difference between what a set of mufflers can do.

Run #17 was with Bassani DNT mufflers, these are large open mufflers (very similar to CFR's), and Run #20 is with Crusher mufflers with standard baffles. Both setups got full dyno tunes. There is a difference of 20+Tq in the lower RPM's just from a muffler swap.

Jamie, how does the 777 in an otherwise stock setup last over the long term? Is there any worry of additional wear and tear by not replacing the heads or anything like that? Seams like great numbers for relatively low cost.
 

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Jamie, how does the 777 in an otherwise stock setup last over the long term? Is there any worry of additional wear and tear by not replacing the heads or anything like that? Seams like great numbers for relatively low cost.
Zero issues, we have literally hundreds and hundreds of stock 103 motors out there running TW-777 cams. Its a great choice for those looking for broad power, it all comes does to the complete combination and what you are looking for.
 

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So what can be done besides replacing the CFR's? Was one of the first things I put on and my all time favorite exhaust. What cam would work with them and would going to a 30t front sprocket maybe move the torque curve lower. Trying to figure out what to do without loosing the CFR's
 

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So what can be done besides replacing the CFR's? Was one of the first things I put on and my all time favorite exhaust. What cam would work with them and would going to a 30t front sprocket maybe move the torque curve lower. Trying to figure out what to do without loosing the CFR's
Essentially is it up to the individual to put performance, sound, & apperance in the order that suites them the best. In the case of these mufflers, you cant bend the laws of physics; it comes down to Bernoulli's principle
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Lots of great discussion here. I too will not ditch the CFR,s because I Absolutely love the sound. And if that is sacrificing a little low end TQ, I'm ok with it. I have however just ordered the PowerVision from you Jamie at FuelMoto and hope this allows me a little better tune than the PCV. And I know I will probably have to have it dyno 'd again, but I just didn't feel that the PCV was doing the trick now. And most tune guys have all told me to ditch the PCV. So, we shall see. I'm going to try your map first, and see if it's any better, then have it tuned if needed by Razorback performance. I felt my tune by Faribault HD wasn't a good tune. Friday afternoon, only took about an hour on it. Should've saved the $400 and changed to the Powervision from FM, and then Had it tweaked if needed. Oh well, it's only money...lol.

If anyone can tell me of a better performing pipe that sounds close to the CFR's I would change. Otherwise, nope.
 

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Essentially is it up to the individual to put performance, sound, & apperance in the order that suites them the best. In the case of these mufflers, you cant bend the laws of physics; it comes down to Bernoulli's principle
I'm looking for more between the 1000-3500 range which is where I spend most of my time, is there a cam designed for that range?? I realize I should get everything done right the 1st time instead of throwing stuff at it hoping it sticks but I cant afford that right now. A good cam & good tune is about all I can afford
 
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