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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, I have a friend (Really. It's not me. I already have my Stage 1 done, and am very happy with it) who has a 2010 Electra Glide Limited. It's 100% stock, but he's doing a Stage 1 soon.

The guy that's doing the work is cutting out the cat, drilling the plugs out of his stock mufflers, and putting a high flow air cleaner on it. He's also installing a tuner, I don't know what brand, I'll ask.

Fine so far, right? (although I don't care for the sound of drilled out stock mufflers. I did it to a FXDX once, and didn't like it).

His "guy" is supposedly taking his bike and putting it on a dyno to tune it. I suggested a canned map was probably going to be all he needs, and he'd see very little increase in HP or TQ by massaging the canned map on a dyno. He disagrees, and is paying for dyno time. Fine, I tell him, prove me wrong and show me the baseline run on the canned map, and the improvement once the dyno tune is done. Now, he says his guy won't have a baseline to compare it to, as that's a waste of expensive dyno time. I called BS, he got pissed and told me it's his bike and he trusts the guy...

Two questions:

1) Am I wrong, or don't you have to have a baseline run to see what and where you plan on tweaking the canned map? Don't dyno runs show before and after HP/TQ numbers? If nothing else, just to show how much and what that expensive dyno time accomplished?

2) How much (if any) increase in HP/TQ are you typically going to see by "dyno tuning" a canned map on a simple Stage 1? As there are literally 1000's of bikes out there with the exact same Stage 1 pipes and air cleaner, how is one motor going to be significantly different than the other 999 of them? If anyone actually has a Stage 1 dyno sheet comparing a canned map to a dyno tuned map, I would really love to see it.

Also, I'm not afraid to be wrong. I just want some proof, as I can't make logical sense of what he is telling me. If it really makes a difference, then hell, I'll pay to have my bike put on a dyno, and get my canned map tweaked too...
 
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Well, my .02 on this is simple Canned Map is just that and meant to be loaded and left alone - To get the most of Dyno Time you need a good ECM to tune off of and a cat who knows what he is doing

Now, with that said, I did have a Canned Map Tuned on my old Single Cyn KTM 690 (Akrpovich Map made for KTM Big Singles) and it ran liked a raped ape afterwards so I think "yes" in the right hands, a canned untuned vs a canned tuned will supply different numbers but as a guess, I would say maybe 2-4 more HP and the same in Trq
 

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I have done both canned maps and dyno tuning of each cylinder. This was on my V-Rod but the same will hold true to any motor.

There are small (very small) differences in each motor mass produced as well as between each head. Having a dyno tune done by a knowledgeable tuner will make the motor run at its best. You may gain a few ponies but none that you will be able to feel or notice in any way.

What I did notice going from a canned map to a proper dyno tune was that the power curve was much smoother and rolling on the throttle was very smooth. The bike simply reacted better and ran smoother than with the canned tune.

My Road Glide is still stock setup. If I were to modify this I would go with a canned tune to get it on the road and then have it tuned professionally as there are a few really good tuners in my area.

My .02
 

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My reply would be as follows...

1) The canned maps are available from most of the after-market Tuner mfgs.
2) The Harley canned maps run lean; but they do what is needed.

It just depends on what 'your friend' wants to do.. ;-)

-G
 

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Tune

A dyno tune is almost always better in some or lots of areas than a canned map whether beginning with a 'can' or something else. In order to tune the tech needs something with which to tune against.
As has been said, a stock HD download will work--always lean and nearly fully EPA compliant.
Many have great success using an aftermarket operator tuning device either a piggy back or an ECM flasher. That will be better (IMO) than any canned map and if used carefully can approach 80-90% results of a very competent dyno tuner.
YMMV of course--just speaking from my experience.
Cheers.
 
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