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I have a noise i have been chasing for a while now. It actually sounds like it is coming from the valve train. I had hoped the noises were from my transmission that I rebuilt in another thread recently and that did take care of some noise, but not what I'm hearing now.

I did a 107" kit and t-man 555tq cams last fall. The noise started about 300 miles into the break in and I initially thought it was pinging, but after dyno tuning it was still there. I spoke to Frank about it last week and he mentioned that the cams I have are noisy, but my noise is to severe for that I think. I tried the rag over the air cleaner he suggested but it was still there. I met up with Hutmo and Dmize last weekend and both heard my bike and also thought the noise was a problem.

Before heading to Pittsburgh last weekend I had pulled the Rocker covers for a visual and readjusted my pushrods in case they had moved since my build, but everything appeared fine.

Scott at Hillside mentioned in a thread about crank problems to keep an eye on oil pressure and that crank runout can contribute to valve train noise and low oil pressure. This popped into my head on the way home from Pittsburgh so I started focusing on the gauge and realized my oil pressure was between 16 & 18 pounds in the 2800 to 3000 rpm range. It should be about twice that.

I drained the oil and pulled the filter yesterday. I am using the K & P reusable filter which has a magnet built into it and it had a pretty sizable glob of metal soaked oil on the magnet. About the size of a marble.

I pulled the cam chest apart and checked the crank runout. It was less than .003. I didn't notice any unusual wear marks on the cams, oil pump, or crank.

I'm going to swap the cam plate and oil pump for either the Feuling, or SE one. Perhaps the low oil pressure is causing my problem, but the amount of metal on the oil filter has me thinking something worse. If I was a betting man I would have put money on the crank runout being horrific, but not so.

Any other suggestions of things to check?
 

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I have a noise i have been chasing for a while now. It actually sounds like it is coming from the valve train. I had hoped the noises were from my transmission that I rebuilt in another thread recently and that did take care of some noise, but not what I'm hearing now.

I did a 107" kit and t-man 555tq cams last fall. The noise started about 300 miles into the break in and I initially thought it was pinging, but after dyno tuning it was still there. I spoke to Frank about it last week and he mentioned that the cams I have are noisy, but my noise is to severe for that I think. I tried the rag over the air cleaner he suggested but it was still there. I met up with Hutmo and Dmize last weekend and both heard my bike and also thought the noise was a problem.

Before heading to Pittsburgh last weekend I had pulled the Rocker covers for a visual and readjusted my pushrods in case they had moved since my build, but everything appeared fine.

Scott at Hillside mentioned in a thread about crank problems to keep an eye on oil pressure and that crank runout can contribute to valve train noise and low oil pressure. This popped into my head on the way home from Pittsburgh so I started focusing on the gauge and realized my oil pressure was between 16 & 18 pounds in the 2800 to 3000 rpm range. It should be about twice that.

I drained the oil and pulled the filter yesterday. I am using the K & P reusable filter which has a magnet built into it and it had a pretty sizable glob of metal soaked oil on the magnet. About the size of a marble.

I pulled the cam chest apart and checked the crank runout. It was less than .003. I didn't notice any unusual wear marks on the cams, oil pump, or crank.

I'm going to swap the cam plate and oil pump for either the Feuling, or SE one. Perhaps the low oil pressure is causing my problem, but the amount of metal on the oil filter has me thinking something worse. If I was a betting man I would have put money on the crank runout being horrific, but not so.

Any other suggestions of things to check?
Did you replace your lifters?
 

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Gaterman 1023 series lifters. The following is recommended by Gaterman ...

This preload is recommended for .063" on the intake side and .078" on the exhaust side COLD.

-24 threads per inch pushrods = 1-1/2 turns intake (9 flats intake)
1-7/8 turns exhaust (11 flats exhaust)

-28 threads per inch pushrods = 1-3/4 turns intake (10-1/2 flats intake)
2-1/2 turns exhaust (13 flats exhaust)

-32 threads per inch pushrods = 2 turns intake (12 flats intake)
2-1/2 turns exhaust (15 flats exhaust)
 

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If suspecting a lifter issue, grab a set of S&S lifters and adhere to their pushrod adjustments.
Should not be any real crazy noises with that little cam.:rolleyes:
Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, I used the Gatorman lifters as Frank noted above.

I set the pushrods at 2-1/2 turns per the SE instructions. So by the chart Frank listed above from Gatorman I need to back off on my setting to 1-1/2 on the intake, and 1-7/8 on the exhaust. I measured the thread count and the SE pushrods are 24 TPI. Is it possible that any damage to the valves, guides, or the lifters by having them set at 2-1/2 turns might have caused? Would that little bit of extra load cause the valves to hit the top of the pistons? Ive read where people would go an extra 1/2 to 1 full turn more to quiet valve train noise, so i wouldnt think so. I previously checked the inside of the top rocker box covers and the rockers were not hitting them.

I assume the 2-1/2 turns would not have had any affect on my oil pressure and definitely will be buying either the SE camchest and oil pump, or the Feuling 7074 kit, which comes with new lifters and all the gaskets I'll need. Are there any negatives to the Feuling kit other than the cost? I'll look into the S&S as Scott suggested also and compare the overall cost using the SE parts with it.
 

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Good luck resolving this. If you replace the cam support plate and oil pump, go Feuling. Their products are awesome.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

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I drained the oil and pulled the filter yesterday. I am using the K & P reusable filter which has a magnet built into it and it had a pretty sizable glob of metal soaked oil on the magnet. About the size of a marble. Did you find the root cause of this not normal glob of metal?
 

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Pushrod adjustment shouldn't have any effect on oil pressure. The oil that passes through the lifters and pushrods is metered to the rockers. It doesn't take much oil at all to keep the valve train quiet as long as the hydraulic unit has a sufficient oil feed.

Adjustment WILL have an effect on how the lifter operates, not setting the plunger in a position where the feed hole is exposed to full pressure can cause them to be soft and bottom out (the ball peen sound). Based on Franks suggestions I'd say you've got the plunger feed hole too low in the lifter bore. Try setting them as Frank posted, easy test. Alternatively tear one apart and check it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Did you find the root cause of this not normal glob of metal?
No I did not, and that is a concern of mine. Once I put it back together and if I solve the noise I'm hearing I will do a short oil change and check it again.

Adjustment WILL have an effect on how the lifter operates, not setting the plunger in a position where the feed hole is exposed to full pressure can cause them to be soft and bottom out (the ball peen sound). Based on Franks suggestions I'd say you've got the plunger feed hole too low in the lifter bore. Try setting them as Frank posted, easy test. Alternatively tear one apart and check it out.
The ball peen sound is a good description of what I am hearing. I'll try that before replacing the lifters since they are easy enough to replace.
 

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The ball peen sound is a good description of what I am hearing. I'll try that before replacing the lifters since they are easy enough to replace.
Yeah about the only way I can describe it. Everything I've read about Gatormans is that they are finicky about adjustment. That's the whole reason to use hydraulics, to NOT have finicky adjustments. If loosening up the adjustment shuts them up for you, that'll be great. Fingers crossed, you've had enough issues lately...
 

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If thinking about the Feuling or the SE . I did the Feuling over the winetr and it made a big differance in quiteing things down (mentioned this in my build thread a while ago) May not solve the metal problem but it sure is a great product for getting more oil running thru there
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Fingers crossed, you've had enough issues lately...
Ain't that the truth. You'd think I was real hard on my bike, but I'm really not. Maybe I should hit a burnout pit and see if things get better. :D

If thinking about the Feuling or the SE . I did the Feuling over the winetr and it made a big differance in quiteing things down (mentioned this in my build thread a while ago) May not solve the metal problem but it sure is a great product for getting more oil running thru there
Thanks Connector. I think that's the direction I'm going to go.
 

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Hullhorr The short oil change first thing I would due is ditch the K/P then use OEM paper fiter.Then use a can cutter look inside filter pleats area for metal also super clean the K/P filter.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Pictures for the experts

While waiting on parts I decided to go out in the shop this morning and take a close look at the oil pump, crank, and camchest under bright lights and reading glasses.

I took some pics of the crank runout to post. I started to wonder if crank runout would measure any different without the top of the motor installed?

I also noticed some wear on the brass bushing in the camchest, and on the crank where this brass bushing rides. If I run my fingernail across the wear on the crank I can feel the marks, but I cant necessarily catch my nail in them. I'm wondering what might cause these marks in the crank. The bushing being a softer metal i wouldn't think could do that. I'm leary of installing my new Feuling camchest and oil pump and prematurely messing them up. Are those marks on the crank normal? I don't think so, and I see sending the bottom end out in my future.






 

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i'm no expert but looking at the inconicity of them marks i would go all new and know when you head out on a ride your good to go, I may be wrong but it has me subscibed
 

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Did you measure runout with cam plate in place or not?

Every crank and cam plate I've seen has scoring. Yours appears worse than my crank/camplate with .008". I think pictures make the scoring look worse.

If you are still thinking about updating your cam plate and pump. You might think twice. If you install a new plate and pump on an engine with crank run out, your nice new plate is gonna be trashed in short order.
 
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