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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, just posted in the Newb section a little while back. I'm having some stumbling issues with my glide and it was suggested that I post up over here in the engine section.

I bought a 2006 with 24,000 miles on it about a month ago and have been riding and tinkering with it almost daily. When I got it the intake base was busted so I welded it up. Before I reinstalled it I cleaned the hell out of the intake tube cause it was obvious dirt and debris had been getting around a loose filter for who knows how long. The intake went back together nicely after that.

Next issue was a bad exhaust leak and a broken exhaust stud. I managed to get the stud changed without much issue and a couple of new gaskets had the leaks fixed up.

The tags on the bike say it hadn't been licensed in a little over a year, so I dumped some injector cleaner and sea foam in the tank and topped it off with premium fuel.

I have no idea what has been done to the engine, but I know it isn't stock cause it has screaming eagle parts all over the place. My problem is, without pulling it apart, how do I know what's been done to it? It has cnc ported heads and sounds to me like it has cams in it by the way it idles.

The biggest problem I'm having is a stumble at no load cruising speeds. It acts similar to bad gas but if I hit it hard it clears up and pulls like a freight train. On the freeway it runs great, 2500-3000 rpm it's just happy. Try to cruise through town at 25 and it is pissed! It seems to be the worst between 1500-2500 rpm, stumbling, stuttering and even popping occasionally. It pops and stutters under deceleration also, but I know I don't have any exhaust leaks anymore.

I've been reading up all over the place, and I think tomorrow I am going to check for a broken injector wire. May also pull the fuel pump assembly and change the fuel filter. While I'm in there I can check hoses and the regulator housing.

Some things I've already done include new plugs, injector cleaner, full fluid changes, and checked the battery terminals for corrosion and tightness.

I'm gonna have everything torn apart for a few days to put new tires on and install new brake pads so is there anything else you all can think of that I might have a look at while I'm in there?

Sorry about the novel, but I'm still learning the ways of the Harley.

I've got 2000 miles or so on it already and I'm loving it! Just wish I could fix the stutter and figure out exactly what I have for a power plant!
 

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I have a 13 with a stage 4 installed. Mine runs like crap if I go below 2000 rpm. In town cruising I keep it between 22 and 2500.
 

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Check the O2 sensor position. When you are in the closed loop it reads them. :D
 

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when I bought mine used, it wasn't running right either. I bite the bullet and had it dyno tuned. Runs fantastic now.
 

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I'd start with spark plugs, wires and fuel filter. May not be the cause of your problem but it's a used bike and I'm sure you're not sure if or when those have been changed. I'd start fresh known good parts. Worst case scenario is you just performed regular maintenance. Edit-- just read your whole post :eek:
 

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If the bike runs good at higher RPM than your injector wires are good. You may have dirty injectors or a intake vacuum leak.
You mentioned that you welded the intake you may have some pinholes in the weld that would cause a vacuum leak, a new intake would be a better way to go.
You also didn't know on how long the intake was broken and how much dirt passed by the air filter. The dirt that passed by the air filter could plug part of the injectors and it could cause valve, piston and cylinder wall damage.
The fuel filter and fuel lines is a good thing to check and R&R if needed, make sure the fuel filter housing is round and it is not oval. Also low fuel pressure could be a issue but it would seem that the fuel pressure issue would show up when at higher RPM.
Your bike doesn't have O2 sensors so that is not your problem.
If everything checks out good than you will need a new tune.
 

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From your description I believe your dealing with reversion from the cam overlap. Symptoms are engine stutters almost like it is missing at 2 to 5 percent throttle load such as you would find when trying to hold a steady but low speed as in traffic. It can sometimes be bad enough to cause the bike to begin bucking. If this is what your experiencing, it can be minimized with proper fuel and timing adjustments (normally it needs the fuel to be leaned out in the 2 to 5 percent TP range). A good dyno operator can make it much better or even completely disappear.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Stumble

Well I may have misled with the intake welding statement. I actually welded the base for the air filter mount, not the actual intake horn.

The bike is in the shop at this point and it looks like a hand grenade went off in the middle of it. I have parts spread everywhere! The fuel filter will be replaced tomorrow, along with the rear tire, brakes pads and fuel pump screen if I can find one. It looks like there is some delamination in the bottom of the fuel rank that may have plugged up the fuel pump screen. I cleaned the tank out and attempted to clean the screen but it doesn't come off very easy, so it's not perfect.

I pulled the injectors and cleaned them up, but they really didn't look that bad. The injector wires seem to be in good shape and passed a continuity check while I wiggled them around. I got numbers off the injectors, so I can see which ones I'm running. Not sure where to check those numbers yet?

As a bonus, I found out my left front fork seal is leaking, so that's the next project I guess. I may as well dive in to that when I pull the handlebars to put the yaffe clamp on.

I did notice a decent wear mark in the front spark plug wire, so I'll probably replace that too.

At this point I haven't really found anything that stands out and looks like a problem. Most of what I've done can be chocked up to routine maintenance so I'm glad I did it anyway.

I think I'm in agreement with a lot of you guys in thinking it's in dire need of a good tune. I need to find a good dyno guy I guess. I've been looking maybe installing a power commander or something similar and trying a few of the online tunes, but I don't know how well that would work.

I really need to figure out what the hell has been done to this thing engine wise so I know what I'm talking about if I get a chance to do some dyno time.

Thanks for the replies and ideas guys, I'll try and keep this updated to let you know what I figure out as I go.
 

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Also get a new set of stock HD plug wires, make sure your intake seals are sealing. If they've been setting and they're old, I'd replace them with new ones. They can intermittently leak as parts swell with heat etc. I'd also grab the wire harness gently where they plug into the injectors and gently do "the jiggle test". I've seen the wiring harnes for the injectors a bit too short and the wire can break inside the insulation. Another place to do that test is at the neck where the main harness runs by the neck. Also, check the bike for DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes) right from the odometer reset button. You can check each bank and write the codes down and clear them right from the odometer reset button. Also check fuel pressure and make sure the fuel lines inside the tank don't have any pin holes in them. Another one that can be intermittent and hard to chase down is a bad crankshaft position sensor. They are a magnet and I've seen them misfire after getting warmed up. They have a magnet in them and when they get hot, the magnet, if broken, can separate itself from it's other half and cause random misfire. Also make sure your ECM connection is nice and clean and right. A little dielectric grease can prevent future problems. Other than that, make sure your ground to your battery and the oposite end of the battery cable are clean and spit the area that it fastens to. If all of these things check out, it sounds like it timeto get it to a competent dyno tuner and get it tuned. Make good tune is the best money spent on an air cooled Harley IMO, even if they're stock. One other thing I forgot to mention, it's time for you to check you can chain tensioners also. Not catching them in time can be catastrophic but if you do catch the in time it's really nothing to sweat. Aside from those things, condrulations on the new bike! With a service manual and the help of forums, you may surprise yourself with how much you can do if you're handy with a wrench! Let us know what you find.
 

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Hey there Broncoguy. I also have a 2006. I purchased from a guy who swore is was stock. Have since found out from the dealer it has a Stage Two Screaming Eagle full kit including cylinders, 203 cams, full injectors, pistoms and a stage 2 ECM flash. It you have lots of Screaming Eagle parts you also probably have the same. It was a very popular upgrade. My 2006 is also a little stutter around town at engine speeds less than 2500rpm. So I think it is the nature of the beast. I like MOCOTOMS idea and Iron Marks idea as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Stumble

I got the bike all back together minus the back tire I'm waiting on. I cleaned the injectors, changed fuel filter, cleaned the fuel pump pickup screen, new spark plugs, made sure intake bolts were tight, and cleaned the intake real well.

There's was a little delamination in the fuel tank, but not horrible. I fired it up on the stand and it seems to idle a tiny bit smoother, but that may just be wishful hearing. I won't be able to ride it till I get home from work Wednesday morning and get the tire put back on.

If it doesn't run any better, I'm going to look into trying one of those Cobra FI2000 auto tuners. Hopefully that will cure my issue, I guess we shall see.
 

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The cobra tuner works good if the bike is completely stock and you change the breather and pipes. I put one on my bike that had the stage 1 and a decatted head pipe and CFRs and there was no difference. So I sold it to a buddy who had nothing but a different air cleaner and slipons and his bike runs awesome and will out run mine with cams and all. So not trying to change your mind about the cobra but you might want to check out the other tuners
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Tuner

I'm open to other tuners for sure, but I'm not spending 1000 dollars on dyno tuning, especially when there is nobody even close to me that I am aware of.

I've read that there are tuners out there that have an online list of tunes available via download, so maybe that's the direction to go. I'm open to suggestions as far as tuners go, especially if someone has a similar setup to mine.

I'm not looking for huge horsepower or anything, I just want this damn thing to run smoothly like it should.
 

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Since you have no clue what has been done to the bike there are two methods to get it right. First off, many ride at low RPM's these things like to spin, lugging the engine is worse that hot rodding. S&S recommends all twin cams be at 2700+ cruising, I am in the habit of turning about 3k all the time. Might drop to 2400 coming through the neighborhood.

That being said, assuming you have head work and cams you can either purchase a tuner with the at module and make a little progress yourself. Three that come to mind are:

PowerVision with AT Pro
PCV with Auto tune
Thundermax

Any of these working and hooked up correctly will eventually get you to Nirvana but it does take a little bit of research, trial and error, and some riding. Personal experience I have is with the PV/AT Pro, and PCV w/AT.

I have no experience with the Thundermax but have chosen to avoid it for a few reasons. These being ABS on my bike, and the hard start issue that some have had. The guys that like the Thundermax and are using it swear by it. Just as I swear by the Dynojet products.

Next option is to buy a tuner and have a dyno guy nail it down. This obviously requires the purchase of a Module or communication software/hardware of some type, and a reputable dyno guy.

I would rather bet on myself that the dyno guy. I have more time to really tweak it and am a fan of the auto tune due to:
altitude, temperature, humidity, and fuel changes.

Either way you want to make sure your afr's are where they need to be, my bike ran great when I had AFR's in the 10's but I you could smell the unburnt fuel when I rolled the throttle.

I am using a Power Vision with auto tune pro now and am very happy with it. It is a flash tuner so the only real failure I could have is the ECM taking a dive. I have it dialed in and can tweak it if any of the changes listed above alter the current tune in my bike.

If work has been done to the bike my guess is the previous owner has already tuned it. 1500 - 2000 rpm is not going to be popular with any cams that I am aware of. Good Luck ~ there are some great folks on here and alot of wisdom. I am not claiming to have any of this wisdom but have owned 30 hd's and average well over 40k per year. By no means am I a mechanic or a tuner, I choose to do my own work and tune my own bikes so if there is a failure, I know what has been done.

I've seen alot of work done on these things and a torque wrench is never utilized by a so called professional technician. A dyno tune is only as good as the tuner. The tuner could be inhibited by outside variables such as work load, experience, and other factors.

I torque my bolts to spec, read the service manual, and am confident when I complete a task or repair on my bike it is correct.

The tune loaded into my bike is spot on, I'm not saying that a professional tuner could not squeak a few more hp/tq out of it by playing with timing and fuel. The extra 2 hp in possible gains is not worth the money or the wear on the bike to me.

Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Tuners

Mitch, thanks for the info. I am definitely more confident in myself than somebody else when it comes to working on my stuff. I haven't taken a vehicle of any kind to anyone else for repair in the last 16 years. I am going to look into the the options you mentioned for tuning. I like the idea of being able to tune my own stuff, just need to read a bit more before I tackle it myself. I'd rather blow my bike up and learn from it than take it to someone else for work.

If I can't figure out what I have as far as engine goes by this winter, it will get blown apart and I WILL know what I've got by spring! Thanks for all the info and ideas guys, I appreciate the knowledge sharing. Hopefully I can contribute some as time goes on.
 

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Just in case you think this bike may have a Screaming Eagle stage two kit, check a dealer near you who may have completed the job. With you VIN # they may be able to confirm it you have such an upgrade. (it was a very popular upgrade) If this is the case it is going to be a bit stumbly at RPMs less than 2200 in third gear or less. Cruising in forth gear or fifth at 2000 or greater should be fine. And as Mitchdm says 2500 or higher is better. I only cruise in fifth gear at 2200 rpm or may be 2000 rpm if the road is absolutely flat and no load is exerted on the engine. If I need to pass I drop a gear or two and give r. That's how a 203 cam likes to work. Some cams need more rpm. I am no mechanic. Just know from experience with non-modified 1450 engines and the SE stage 2 1550 engine which I currently have. I wish I was as handy as you and Mitch.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Engine

Hey Grambo, ya I'm really starting to think I have the same setup you do. I haven't been able to confirm it yet because the last dealer that sold it was purchased by another dealer. I called them and they have changed computer systems twice in the last 4 years, so the guy I talked to said the only way to know what was done would be to dig through hard copies. He said he was gonna do that for me but I haven't heard back from him.

The paperwork I found in the bike says it had 2000 dollars worth of dealer installed extras, but it doesn't say what those extras were. I am going to ride it the way it is till I figure things out, but I will continue to tinker with it in hopes of curing my stumble.

I still love riding it, so cured or not, it's getting miles put on it!
 

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$2000.00 sounds about right for a stage 2 kit.
 
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