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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a 2010 FLTRX from my dealer in Dec 2012. Third bike from them, 8 year relationship. Also bought a four year extended warranty.

About two weeks ago I noticed excessive oil consumption. Like 1.5 quarts in 300 miles. I took it in last week and was told the warranty would cover repairs labor and parts but not diagnostic time. They estimated 1-2 hours shop time to determine the problem. Fine, whatever.

Today they called me and said the rings failed. Then the bad news... since it was a used bike, ring failure is not covered. They recommended I call the extended warranty people. I did so, and was told that oil consumption on a used bike wasn't covered. I explained that the point of the warranty was to cover catastrophic mechanical failures while I was still making payments, and that the dealership assured me that the bike was covered from fender to fender (less brake pads, batteries and paint). He put me on hold and when he came back he said broken rings were covered, but not worn ones. He said the service write up was non specific, and that I should call the dealership.

I called the dealership back, and was told yes, the rings were broken, and that they felt "failed" and "broken" were the same thing. I asked them to sort it out with Extended Warranty.

At last contact the Dealership said Extended Warranty was sending out an inspector next Wednesday.

Anyone experience issues getting the extended warranty to kick in? My real beef is with the salesman that assured me I was covered as long as I did the services (I did) and didn't do anything crazy to the motor on my own (I didn't). There are no mode that would affect the motor aside from the PCV, which was on the bike when they sold it to me. The engine is stock, had 4500 miles when I bought it, and failed at 9900. If they don't honor it, I'm considering cancelling the rest of the warranty because 1) I'll need it to pay the repair bill with the refund and 2) it doesn't seem to be doing anything for me.

If I get hung out to dry I'll pack the bike up, take it elsewhere, eat the bill (and probably go big bore), and never set foot in the dealership again. I have other options. Whole thing was an unnecessary blood pressure spike for me.
 

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I don't use warranty's cuz I always void em... but, imo if you've got a good relationship with the dealer. good is relative of course, because you may think you have a good relationship, and the dealer may disagree... anyway, assuming they don't hate you.

Go in and talk to the guy you have the best relationship with and ask if he can help you out before you pull the bike outta there. You'll be paying them quite a bit for the diag part, and they won't release it as a pile of parts, so you'll pay for the partial assembly too.

The reality is a new set of rings and quick hone at this point is cheap. The costs are in all the work you've already committed to. That said, you didn't say how many miles are on the bike. But obviously boring your cylinders for a .010" oversize if necessary is going to cost the same as the "big" bore size 3.875". The pistons will cost marginally more than the next oversize piston... So IF you are at a point you have to go o/s, then it's no brainer to do the big bore. IF you have low mileage and can reuse your pistons the ring replacement is cheap...

Net of that is, if the relationship is important and you want to keep the warranty intact for other aspects of coverage, take a breath and have the non-catastrophic problem resolved.
 

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If the dealership really wanted then work they would assist you and get it covered. Yes a cash job to them is worth more than a warranty job but they don't even pay their mechanics what their supposed to receive either. Either way I believe the true test of loyalty to you would be to get the verbage on paper and get the part that's broken there for the adjuster to see if you follow what I mean ?
 

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Salesman will tell you anything. If your dealer & service dept. was worth a $hit he would get with ESP & get it straighten out.
 

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That's if the salesman sold you an OEM warranty and not an aftermarket.
 

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I dont think you will have a problem. If the bike had 50k , that might be normal wear. At 9k , that much oil blow bye is not normal wear.
If the dealer wrote it up right the first time , it would have been approved.

What did the leak down test show ?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I may have understated the problem. According to the dealer, ring failure is the cause...but the pistons and cylinders are damaged and I'm looking at a $2,000 rebuild of the too end. Bike has 10k miles. Which is why if I have to pay for it I'll go big bore. Labor should be about the same regardless of displacement.

I will certainly give the dealership a chance to make it right, and I know exactly where I'll start. But if they blow me off...not one more penny.

ETA: no mention of a leak down test.
 

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I may have understated the problem. According to the dealer, ring failure is the cause...but the pistons and cylinders are damaged and I'm looking at a $2,000 rebuild of the too end. Bike has 10k miles. Which is why if I have to pay for it I'll go big bore. Labor should be about the same regardless of displacement.

I will certainly give the dealership a chance to make it right, and I know exactly where I'll start. But if they blow me off...not one more penny.

ETA: no mention of a leak down test.
I don't see how the ext. warranty company can deny payment then. Has nothing to do with the dealer.
 

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Never heard of broken rings at 9,000 mile on a stock 96" engine. I would say that with the mileage there was a mechanical problem far more serious then worn rings and the ESP should cover it.
You didn't mention if you have the HD extended warranty or a aftermarket extended warranty, which may make a difference in coverage.
If the rings are broken then there will be piston and cylinder wall damage which will result in a complete top end rebuild so this would be a good time to upgrade to the 103" BB and just pay the difference.
 

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Not even sure how ya'd break a ring, should be obvious though. If you move your bike to service eslewhere likely the "diagnostic time charged" wouldn't be reimbursed by ESP. And yes you can get your bike back in any stage of dis-repair, it's not theirs, just get all the parts loaded then say FU, if they don't do everthing to keep you then FUFU
 

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Discussion Starter #11
To address some of the questions and suggestions:

It's a third party extended warranty. When I call the number it says "Harley extended Yada Yada..." but the dealership says its a separate entity.

In terms of upgrading to the 103 or bigger, I was told I'd eat the whole bill...ESP only replaces like parts. I suspect they do that so people don't sabotage their bikes for a cheaper upgrade. Otherwise I'd jump, regardless of who pays for this in the end.

The diagnostic time isn't covered anyway. I'll pay what I owe and walk if I have to. If the ESP won't cover it, I'll be laying the blame at the feet of the finance guy that insisted all things mechanical were covered when I bought it. The techs have been OK, aside from maybe not documenting the problem well enough or pushing harder for coverage. But the sales guys appear to have lied to me, and I won't have that.

I could see the argument against covering worn rings at 30k+ miles, but under 10k? Completely unreasonable. I'd consider that a borderline lemon, since the motor is un-tampered with. And if the previous owner did crack the motor, then this dealership sold it to me that way.
 

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The Dealer selling you the ESP makes almost a 50% profit margin on selling the ESP to you at list price.

The Dealer selling the ESP is supposed to do an inspection on the bike, per the ESP guidelines and sign off if the bike is eligible for ESP. The burden is on them.

They took your money for the bike, and took your money for the ESP on the bike that they sold you, and now they want you to haggle for repairs (on a bike that you did no mods on) with the ESP ~ WTF???

You might want to ask an attorney (versed in these matters) what your options are, then have a dialogue with the owner or the GM of the selling Dealership and see if they will fix your bike properly in a decent time frame, or have them buy the bike and the ESP back from you for a full refund. It would be cheaper for them than litigation, knowing they are going to lose or having to make their employees commit perjury.

We buy ESP for piece of mind, and all we get is a run around when we have a failure, and make a claim...

As far as upgrading during an ESP claim, that is a fairly common occurrence (I know of 2 people that went to 120Rs during an ESP claim (had to pay the difference) then cancelled ESP. It's all up to the Dealer what is done with the ESP money after the ESP inspector budgets the repairs.

'Am curious to see how this plays out for you...

Good Luck!
 

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Is it the H-D warranty, or the ESP warranty?
Broken ring?
About the only way that happens is if they were not gapped correctly upon installation, causing them to "butt" togather, resulting in breakage.
Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So... the saga continues.

Wed. morning the service manager calls me. He says that he was handling it personally since things have "gone to s**t." He had some choice language for the ESP folks, and informed me that they had sent the inspector out. He took one look at the PCV and spent the rest of his time blaming that for wrecking the engine by running rich. The service manager told him that he was not going to sell their "product" any more if that's how his customers were going to be treated. No dice. The SM said the fight wasn't over and that he had a call in to the inspector's boss... he added that if he had to he'd get a refund on the rest of the warranty and with a deep discount on parts and labor he'd try to get me out of there without going out of pocket. Bad news was that the heads were so gummed up it'd be a while (this dealership farms out their head work).

About 1/2 hour after the dealership closed that evening, the SM calls me back. He said that he laid into the guy in charge at the ESP company. He focused on A) the PCV was on the bike when I bought it, and before I bought the warranty, B) I had to have a fuel module of some kind to balance the stage 1, and C) if they wouldn't cover a customer in good standing he would not sell their ESP anymore (or at least that's what he told me). He tacked on D), which is at 9000 miles no rings should be failing and that was the biggest BS he'd ever heard in a warranty decline, and the PCV was highly unlikely to have caused the failure.

Short story long the ESP is going to cover the repair, on the condition I remove the PCV (or they'll cancel my warranty). Dealership waived all costs except the $50 deductible for the warranty. Probably looking at 3-4 weeks downtime.

I can keep the PCV and the warranty for the rest of the bike, or I can remove it and the warranty will remain in effect for everything. I'm considering dumping the warranty and getting additional engine work done since they'll be in there anyway. Any changes also void the warranty.

The only other thing that got me thinking was... What if they were right and the PCV killed the motor? If it kills this one I'd be really hosed. Anybody have real mechanical knowledge of what harm a bad PCV could do, and how I could check it out/test it?

So far the ESP company gets a D- and the dealership gets an A. Only slightly annoying bit was the dealership meekly suggested I drop the coin for a SERT over the PCV. I detest the SERT because it slaves you to the dealership and induces future costs for any changes.
 

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My one and only experience with the PCV is that it got damaged somehow under my seat and it kept shutting downmy bike at 4th gear and or 70mph. I eventually through troubleshooting with Dynojet over the phone got a new replacement. I sold it and went with a powervision from Fuelmoto with Jamie's assistance and tuning and I'm extremely happy. Good luck and I'm happy it worked out well for you.
 

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Only slightly annoying bit was the dealership meekly suggested I drop the coin for a SERT over the PCV. I detest the SERT because it slaves you to the dealership and induces future costs for any changes.
I'm glad you're making some progress. Hopefully you'll be able to come out with some upgrades as part of the repair.
As for the SERT, you're not stuck with the dealer's tune if that's what you mean. There are plenty of independent tuners that work with that device. Also, you can buy the software and tweak it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
That's news to me...i was under the impression only the dealer could tune with a SERT. What's the software cost?

As for the pcv, my next plan was an auto tune module. Not so sure now. But it'd be the cheaper option.
 

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if you financed the ESP with the bike , and cancel it , you will not get a refund if the note is not paid off . Any ESP refund will go on the note

JtB
 

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If tuned correctly the PCV is a good unit and works well, with that said I prefer the style of tuner that does need to remain connected to the ECM wiring harness such as TTS, Powervision, SE. Any tuner calibrated to run very rich a/f ratios will dramatically shorten the life of piston rings but I've never seen it cause them to actually break.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If tuned correctly the PCV is a good unit and works well, with that said I prefer the style of tuner that does need to remain connected to the ECM wiring harness such as TTS, Powervision, SE. Any tuner calibrated to run very rich a/f ratios will dramatically shorten the life of piston rings but I've never seen it cause them to actually break.
That would have to be intentional though, right? If it failed, I would think that it would cut out, not flood the system... but what do I know?

Even if they refund the warranty to my loan, it'd be more useful than a useless warranty. That'd be about 6 months of payments.
 
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