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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.tunemyharley.com/HOSSTune/forum/

I really hope this moves forward as I enjoy using the Open Source programs for my other bikes. It will be cool to have a low cost data logger and programming interface. Obviously not Harley supported...

Anyone out there with some machine language/micro controller knowledge.
I'm going to try to help where I can.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sorry for not explaining in more detail.

Just about everything on the bike is controlled via the ECU (Electronic Control Unit). If you turn a wrench on your bike or like to customize it then this is complimentary to that work as you would be able to also customize the way the engine runs and adjust things for your possible hardware modifications.
And the ECU has been on these bikes even when they had carbs.

Here are some examples of things you do with this sort of tool:
So you put a super-sucker on and some pipes, you can tune the engine to make more power with the free flowing air now.
Want to undo the lean running setup Harley put in to pass EPA? It can be done and your bike will run cooler.
Want to remove cats and remove the O2 sensors, you can setup the engine to run great with out them.
Want to know why your bike runs a certain way or tune it for better fuel economy? You can run in data logging mode and see what the engine is doing under loads and then make adjustments to make it perform the way you want.
If it gets big like it is for other bikes then people start sharing tune profiles. So you find someone that has tuned for the same options you have and dyno-ran their bike. Now you just copy their settings and you are pretty much dead on.

I don't know what the "Average Rider" is but I do know that there are a lot of us that like to have our Harley our way and I'm certainly one of those people. There are commercial tools and some from Harley that let you do some of these things but they have limits and cost a fortune. By having a open source, community driven tool set we get a say in things.

If you have no interest in tuning your bike, turning a wrench on it, or doing your own customizations then there is nothing to see here.
 

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I don't see this being very useful unless you know a bunch of people using it or own a dyno. I am familiar with these tools on cars and even though you can take settings from someone else with similiar mods every car/bike is different it won't be optimal without a dyno tune. I think given that most aftermarket tuners are going autotune this is too little too late.

Is this software free? The tuner software I've seen that updates the stock ECM on cars is not cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't see this being very useful unless you know a bunch of people using it or own a dyno. I am familiar with these tools on cars and even though you can take settings from someone else with similiar mods every car/bike is different it won't be optimal without a dyno tune. I think given that most aftermarket tuners are going autotune this is too little too late.

Is this software free? The tuner software I've seen that updates the stock ECM on cars is not cheap.
Yes autotune is gaining popularity and I would suspect this will evolve to have the same features without the need to purchase the expensive hardware. This is free software and will have an open design so any one can extend it or improve it.

While I gave an example of coping maps it is only a small part of what could be done. Diagnostics is another as is being able to have access to settings only the dealer previously could do.

Because the law requires that automakers provide open access to their systems for small shops and mechanics you can find tools like this anywhere for cars but that law does not apply to motorcycles and so your choices are limited.

Software like this will also mean that independent mechanics will have access to similar things as the dealer and that is great to drive down costs.
 

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I hear you but you still need a laptop for all of this which is an expense. I really don't see this catching on too much in the HD community but it's nice to see people developing alternatives. As far as this developing into autotune perhaps but it would still be limited by the stock o2 sensors like the other autotune modules out there that don't supply wideband sensors.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I hear you but you still need a laptop for all of this which is an expense. I really don't see this catching on too much in the HD community but it's nice to see people developing alternatives. As far as this developing into autotune perhaps but it would still be limited by the stock o2 sensors like the other autotune modules out there that don't supply wideband sensors.

Well it is still too early to say what the requirements and capabilities will be. The important thing for me is to support the development in hopes it will progress and move this area of Harley tech forward.

I feel a negative vibe about this news but I'm not sure why. You suggest that a laptop is an expense but it isn't. If you have a computer then fine you can connect the data logger and use the data on your desktop. Obviously being able to use a laptop directly connected for real time work is a plus but not exactly required.

I don't think wide-band O2 will be a problem if the community and development takes similar paths as other tools for other bikes. The key here is to support them and that is more likely in an open development project such as HOSS.

I use an open source software project like this for my Suzuki B-King which is just an upright Hayabusa.

To see what is possible with this kind of tool for features such as Autotune, check out this thread on ECU editor for the Hayabusa/B-King.

I would suggest that anything imaginable within the constraints of the stock ECU is possible if the software catches on and people start extending it.
Why wouldn't we want more options and possibilities?
 

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I am all for anyone and everyone striving for better things. This in my opinion is one of those things. Why do we need to be held to what the MO-CO is providing when we can just bump the ECU up or down ourselves???? These are our bikes and we should have the ability to adjust them as we see fit and not a "pre-set" version of what people think we want.

Good on them and thanks for sharing!
 

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I'm not trying to be negative really I just don't see it taking off in the HD community. Kudos to those willing to work on development and great for those who want to use it I'm all for having options. There is too much out there already that does the same thing and has professional support behind it for this to gain much momentum IMO.
 

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I appreciate the post. I'm a programmer/computer scientist and see this as a very good start to something that could be wonderful for the HD community. The fact he did it in Visual Studio and C# is awesome.

See, open source does not mean YOU have to program. It means that talented people can now get access to the machine and code something cool for you... something you can possibly download for free that does more than a super tuner. Lots of geeks out there.

For the common man? Probably not. But you never know. Might take off in certain circles. Would be cool.

lp
 

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I appreciate the post. I'm a programmer/computer scientist and see this as a very good start to something that could be wonderful for the HD community. The fact he did it in Visual Studio and C# is awesome.

See, open source does not mean YOU have to program. It means that talented people can now get access to the machine and code something cool for you... something you can possibly download for free that does more than a super tuner. Lots of geeks out there.

For the common man? Probably not. But you never know. Might take off in certain circles. Would be cool.

lp
Great! IT architect/engineer myself. I know there will be some that have no interest but I can't wait to see more on this project. Another reason to get my board level equipment back out and do some tinkering. :)
 

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I appreciate the post. I'm a programmer/computer scientist and see this as a very good start to something that could be wonderful for the HD community. The fact he did it in Visual Studio and C# is awesome.

See, open source does not mean YOU have to program. It means that talented people can now get access to the machine and code something cool for you... something you can possibly download for free that does more than a super tuner. Lots of geeks out there.

For the common man? Probably not. But you never know. Might take off in certain circles. Would be cool.

lp
Cool... a question then please <I confess it may be a stupid question but...>:

I wholeheartedly agree that an open source S/W foundation offers excellent oppportunities for creation of low cost functional applications. However, we must still access the architecture inherent in the host system. Would this mean that we would all need an SEAC or equivalent interface so that a PC can "talk" to the ECM?

ETA a second question - Does the HD ECM include a record function that extends beyond faults... i.e. A/F ratios and ignition characteristics at various RPMs, head temperatures, etc, etc?
 

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Cool... a question then please <I confess it may be a stupid question but...>:

I wholeheartedly agree that an open source S/W foundation offers excellent oppportunities for creation of low cost functional applications. However, we must still access the architecture inherent in the host system. Would this mean that we would all need an SEAC or equivalent interface so that a PC can "talk" to the ECM?

ETA a second question - Does the HD ECM include a record function that extends beyond faults... i.e. A/F ratios and ignition characteristics at various RPMs, head temperatures, etc, etc?
Yes you would need a host adapter but the person that developed the code is also working on a design for such an adapter. He has mentioned that he plans to incorporate data logging in his design. Data logging is the key to an autotune feature and without it you really can only adjust and hope with no real facts.

The interface design is really not hard as it has been done several times in the community for other bikes and cars. As it goes though, the more people interested should bring more features and functionality.

As it stands I see this project as a beginning and certainly not ready to compete with commercial products just yet.
 

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Yes you would need a host adapter but the person that developed the code is also working on a design for such an adapter. He has mentioned that he plans to incorporate data logging in his design. Data logging is the key to an autotune feature and without it you really can only adjust and hope with no real facts.

The interface design is really not hard as it has been done several times in the community for other bikes and cars. As it goes though, the more people interested should bring more features and functionality.

As it stands I see this project as a beginning and certainly not ready to compete with commercial products just yet.
Thanks cyclotron. Perhaps if the host adapter, maybe the recorder, and the data adjustment tool(s) are each defined to be discrete elements, then couldn't individual development teams offer suitably scaled tools to meet increasingly complex adjustment capabilities? Maybe a bad suggestion but sometimes "less is more" for those who only wish to do modest changes but less isn't near enough for those who are the true experts.
 
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