I have a question - why is everyone so afraid of voiding their warranty? Are there a lot of warranty claims being submitted?? I am still looking for a RGS or RGU, but once I do, the headers, mufflers, air, cams and tuner are all being replaced/added. I shouldn't have to worry about the powertrain breaking down if it was designed correctly, so why is everyone else so afraid? Just curious - not trying to stir the pot.

 

You're correct, this topic is completely overblown, primarily due to confusion.

With the exception of the '17's, you can't void a warranty. The only way the factory warranty is voided is if the bike is totaled. With the '17's, if you retune the bike with a non-EPA or non-CARB compliant tuner, then only the powertrain warranty is voided.

Where the confusion lies is in regards to a denial of a warranty claim. If you put a 150 hp engine in your bike, and leave the clutch stock, and then burn up the clutch, and then take it to the dealer and tell them it's still under warranty, then the claim for the clutch will be denied, because the failure is your fault. However, the bike's warranty is still in effect.

Personally, my bike has a SE air cleaner, Vance & Hines Pro Pipe, completely EPA illegal dyno tune, I'll probably have 50,000 miles on it before the factory warranty expires, and I'm not worried in the least.

 

Okay, glad I'm not the only one that doesn't see the big deal. I plan to pick up a 2017 if I can find a leftover this season because I think I can get more performance out of the M8 engine. From what I've seen from the guys at Fuelmoto, I will be happy with the results.

 

That new motor has incredible potential, and FuelMoto has a well-deserved reputation for awesome customer service.

...Non EPA tuner and they "can" deny that same claim even though one has nothing to do with the other. I believe in time someone will file and win a suit regarding this. Personally I believe Harley is complicit with the EPA and wanted this ruling to sway as many customers as they can from using any NON Harley Parts?...

If you tune your bike with a non-CARB/non-EPA compliant tuner module, your powertrain warranty IS voided, instantly. Your dealer has nothing to do with this, and cannot change it. Now, if they want to try to honor a powertrain warranty claim by lying to Milwaukee about what tuner module was used, they risk significant fines.

The Consent Decree between Harley-Davidson and the EPA has absolutely nothing to do with aftermarket parts, other than a tuner module. Under this decree, it's perfectly ok to use aftermarket parts, including non-EPA/non-CARB aftermarket parts. You just have to tune the bike with the SE Pro Street Tuner, or have the dealer flash a compliant download tune to the bike.

 

Let me start by saying shit happens. Harley has opted for profit over quality as of late. There have been some reports of lifter failures taking out an engine which would be covered under the factory warranty. Non EPA tuner and they "can" deny that same claim even though one has nothing to do with the other. I believe in time someone will file and win a suit regarding this. Personally I believe Harley is complicit with the EPA and wanted this ruling to sway as many customers as they can from using any NON Harley Parts?

Do you have to put a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge exhaust on your vehicle to retain your factory warranty? No just needs to meet EPA parameters. Now aftermarket tuners are also against the law on those same vehicles and I know Chevy checks the ECM for evidence of ECM tampering and can and will deny claims. There are some tuners that claim they can be set back to stock and be undetected.

I just think we should all have all the facts before making a purchase or doing any modifications on a 2017+ Harley Davidson Motorcycle. I am happy I purchased a 2016 and have one of the last race tuners before they were all pulled from the market. While under warranty I am just doing pipes, air cleaner, and a tune to take some of the heat out. To the letter of the law even that small tune can void my warranty. At the moment they seem to be pushing the hard line on the 2017 and up bikes.

Just one mans opinion.

Remember a lot of this information comes from a company that once said synthetic oil caused bearing skate. Now their synthetic is the end all be all?

Cam chain tensioners, wheel bearings, ABS issues, crank run out? Just some of the issues of the last decade?

 

Remember a lot of this information comes from a company that once said synthetic oil caused bearing skate. Now their synthetic is the end all be all?

I must have missed something throughout the years on this one. I don't remember them saying that synthetic oil, in and of itself, caused bearing skate. What I remember is that many tried, and still do in some cases, to claim that oil designed for cars and trucks would cause the skate. They try and say that you have to use oil that is MA/MA2 rated. Like I said before, I may have missed it because I just wasn't paying attention and just used whatever oil I wanted. Once I started trying to learn about oils I did fall into that belief for a bit but now I don't know if I buy the theories. :wink:

I am of the same mindset as your post though. Well put.

 

Personally I think if the warranty is that important to you, you probably are buying a way too expensive bike. These things ain't cheap. But if I have to replace the entire power train out of pocket. I will. I installed the fp3 yesterday and I love it. If it breaks it will be fixed one way or the other.


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Painting with a pretty broad brush there?

I've paid cash for my last 3 bikes, maybe I can afford it. My last bike had thousands in warranty claims. My newest bike (2016 FLTRXS) has already had the ECM, Throttle body and all associated electronics, left switch pack, and an oil consumption issue all repaired under warranty. I'm glad you would be happy paying out of pocket for all those repairs. But just because I might be able to afford it doesn't mean I want to throw money at something that a warranty will cover!

My 2012 Silverado recently had the front differential and transfer case completely rebuilt under warranty. Why would I want to pay thousands out of pocket when I don't have to? Certainly not to prove to YOU whether I can afford it or not!

By the way fix your signature. You misspelled expert (expect).

 

My current plan is to keep my '15 until the fall of 2018, when the 2019's come out. By then any bugs/tweaks for the M8 will be fixed, and I'll probably be flirting with 75,000 miles on mine, and I'll be able to get a deal on an '18.

Since that will probably be the last bike I'll ever buy, (yeah...right), I'll ride it stock for a year. If nothing breaks, probably nothing will, and then I'll "make it mine."

 

I had asked about this issue with a few Harley dealers. They said the only bikes effected by this fine are the screamin eagles models with the race tuner, if you alter them. The non screamin eagles were not effected. I could be wrong. But anyway ride it till it out of warranty then make the mods this way the aftermarket companies have time to build tuner and test the mods before you get them. I am referring too ecm tuning, throttle bodies etc etc..

 

Better ask another dealer.

It is against the law for any dealer to tamper with the emissions system of a new vehicle. The MoCo and it's dealers had been ignoring the law and got nailed. It's also against the law to sell off road race parts for on road use, for which the MoCo took the hit. I understand that the MoCo/EPA settlement has been challenged by several environmental groups, so that will have to play out before we know were it all ends up.

The epa went to the MoCo and told them to fix the problem. The fix was to make it harder to get a new Harley that did not meet emissions standards by eliminating the availability of parts to replace emissions components. The parts and services a dealer will offer to sell you on a new Harley will meet emissions standards and will be from the MoCo. If a dealer installs non conforming items on a street driven motor cycle, he not only risks a fine, he risks having his store padlocked by the MoCo and sold out from under him. And to further this, some of the more popular offending items will not longer fit on a 17 and newer scooter. Slip ons and air boxes and race tuners being seen as the main offenders. And to track this, the MoCo added a step to every warranty claim. The Digi-tech will quarry the ecm and produce a digital readout with is then transferred to the warranty claim.

In simple terms, if it detects an non compliance map, or an aftermarket add on tuner, your warranty claim will be refused. This is only for 2017 up scooters at this time. But dealers are being told that tampered scooters WILL be bad for their business. Even selling used ones will be risky for their continued relationship with the factory.

The writing is on the wall. The time remaining where MoCo dealers will work on tampered scooters is measured in months, not years. And the time where a MoCo dealer will disable emissions on a scooter is over. Sure there are still a few out there doing it, they won't be around long.

What you do to your own scooter is still more or less the wild wild west, pending you local emissions testing situation. And with the new administration, it's not likely to change any time soon. Prolly the most noticeable thing on the horizon is db testing at US park entrances. Seems the tree huggers have been complaining about loud motorcycles.