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Discussion Starter #1
Are the o2 sensors on our bikes narrow or wide band?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Cool. I need to figure out what connections do what. I'm wanting to add a pair of O2 sensors.
 

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Cool. I need to figure out what connections do what. I'm wanting to add a pair of O2 sensors.
Hey Norm, if your pipes don't already have the bigger bungs, most muffler shops have them in stock. Easy install about 3"s from the heads on the head pipes put in a direction where the sensors clear everything. Cheap to do yourself if you have a big wielder. Good luck.
 

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Cool. I need to figure out what connections do what. I'm wanting to add a pair of O2 sensors.
Your bike already have narrow band O2 sensors which are 12mm so there is no need to add sensors unless you want to go with a auto tune tuner such as a T-max or or PV with the auto tune pro, these style tuners use wideband O2 sensors and the are 18mm.
You can also get 2009 head pipes and install them, the 2009 head pipes have 18mm O2 bungs and no welding is required.
The tuners that have the auto tune and use 18mm wideband O2 sensor usually come with a wiring harness for the O2 sensors.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
My idea was to use the stock 02 sensors and hook them up to aftermarket air/fuel gauges. The smarter thing to do would probably be to get some sensors and mount them in the front holes on my rhinehart pipes. I have 2 up top that are currently blocked off and two down below which my stock sensors are in. My stock sensors aren't doing anything because I'm currently running the PCV. I want to get TTS soon so the utilizing the front holes in my pipes probably would be the best option.
 

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Not sure, but I don't think so. I think it is like the Direct Link. They utilize the narrow band for fuel/air tweaking for altitude, etc.
If that's the case, Power Vison/Target Tune is worlds ahead as it does live wide band tweaking of the map. Works really nice on my 110.
 

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If that's the case, Power Vison/Target Tune is worlds ahead as it does live wide band tweaking of the map. Works really nice on my 110.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's why the T-Max and Power Vision have the wide band sensors is to be able to make whole sale changes to the fuel/air and throttle position/rpm range. That's why they are so good at auto tuning. Once you've ridden 75-100 miles varying rpms, speed, how much throttle, etc. , then you save that map and start over again. It takes several times to get it to fine tune it as best it can. Once all the segments of the map are filled in and corrected, auto tune is to be turned off. Auto tuning can't be done with narrow band sensors. They don't allow enough info nor are they intended for that task.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's why the T-Max and Power Vision have the wide band sensors is to be able to make whole sale changes to the fuel/air and throttle position/rpm range. That's why they are so good at auto tuning. Once you've ridden 75-100 miles varying rpms, speed, how much throttle, etc. , then you save that map and start over again. It takes several times to get it to fine tune it as best it can. Once all the segments of the map are filled in and corrected, auto tune is to be turned off. Auto tuning can't be done with narrow band sensors. They don't allow enough info nor are they intended for that task.
Power Vision's old Autotune was "part time" wide band system, used only long enough tune the map and then switched back to the narrow bands.
The new Target Tune system is a full time system that is used first to do the mass map tuning using the widebands, and then is switched over and used to do the full time trimming with the wide bands as well, which over time trims the entire map.

I don't know enough about the T-max to comment.
 

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Power Vision's old Autotune was "part time" wide band system, used only long enough tune the map and then switched back to the narrow bands.
The new Target Tune system is a full time system that is used first to do the mass map tuning using the widebands, and then is switched over and used to do the full time trimming with the wide bands as well, which over time trims the entire map.

I don't know enough about the T-max to comment.
Kind of what I thought, the T-Max is a stand alone tuner that you remove the ecm and uses wide band sensors. It does the same thing, once auto tune is complete and you are satisfied with all the cells auto tune is turned off and then it just does the normal altitude change and such for the a/f ratio.
 

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The T-max auto tunes the AFR in real time and does it all the time the engine is running and you don't have to flash the ECM after a tune session. I have the Power Vision now and it doesn't have the autotune pro but you have to do a auto tune session and reflash the ECM after the auto tune session. I am not as familiar with the Power Vision as I am with the T-max.
 

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The T-max auto tunes the AFR in real time and does it all the time the engine is running and you don't have to flash the ECM after a tune session. I have the Power Vision now and it doesn't have the autotune pro but you have to do a auto tune session and reflash the ECM after the auto tune session. I am not as familiar with the Power Vision as I am with the T-max.
Yeah correct and the ECM isn't even on the bike with a T-Max. Also after the learning session, you have to save the session to a new Map name, then save it for later comparisons on how well the T-max is tuning and how far it has gotten along in the tuning process. Both are great systems, neither are as good as a dyno.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What I was talking about was to run two sets of sensors. One to run the air/fuel gauges and the other to run the tuner.
 

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Just wondering Norm, what's the purpose of having the gauges? With a vision, you have real time right in front of you.
Correct, the Power Vision with the Target Tune add-on tunes continuously with the wide band sensors, and also has the ability to show you the readings on the screen as you ride. The PV can show you as many as 20 different gauges spread across 4 scrollable screens full time as you ride. There are 30-some different parameters you can choose from to set up as gauges. (The PV unit does not have to be permanently mounted to bike, although I have had mine on my bike for 5 years)

Neither the TTS or the Thundermax offer this capability.
 

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Correct, the Power Vision with the Target Tune add-on tunes continuously with the wide band sensors, and also has the ability to show you the readings on the screen as you ride. The PV can show you as many as 20 different gauges spread across 4 scrollable screens full time as you ride. There are 30-some different parameters you can choose from to set up as gauges. (The PV unit does not have to be permanently mounted to bike, although I have had mine on my bike for 5 years)

Neither the TTS or the Thundermax offer this capability.
I have two of the T-Max's on older bikes and can honestly say, I wished the Vision would have been out when I bought. It seems like so much of a better unit.
 

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I have two of the T-Max's on older bikes and can honestly say, I wished the Vision would have been out when I bought. It seems like so much of a better unit.
I have a TTS laying on the shelf for that very reason.

TTS is fine if you're tuning on a dyno, but when you don't have a decent dyno operator within 100 miles or more, you need to be able to DIY as much as possible and the TTS just wasn't easy to do that with.
 
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