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Discussion Starter #1
I have called the 6 closest Harley Dealers in my area and have just about gotten 6 different answers. I am running a '13 Road Glide Ultra and have the stage 1 air cleaner kit and RC components slip ons. All were installed when I bought the bike new along with a re flash on the computer. I will be installing a 2 into 1 VH Propipe this week and have called and asked if I needed another reflash. I have gotten answers back ranging from....
-The flash that is in it now will work fine
-Harley only offers one flash that covers free flowing AC kit and stock pipe and mufflers
-Needs another reflash
and of course they all want to sell a race tuner.
A friend has the same exhaust along with 255 cams and stage 1 AC kit and the dealer only reflashed the computer and did NOT install a SERT. So does anyone on here have a truthful answer?? Can I run the flash that is in my bike for the stage 1 kit or does it need a reflash? Not ready to do cams yet so don't want to buy a tuner till I am ready to go into the motor.
Thanks for the input
 

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If you only install slip on muffs, no ECM flash required. If you install a free flow intake and free flow muffs you need an ECM flash. If you are getting cams, get a flash. You could also install a tuner for all of the above instead of an ECM flash. That would give you the freedom to tune the fuel/air mixture for any combination of exhaust, intake or cams.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I already have the flash for the air cleaner and mufflers now. The problem is I can't get a straight answer from Harley if I change to a 2 into 1 if that's enough for a reflash or not.
 

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if you are still running stock headers with cats in em, there isnt much point of getting an air cleaner. The big gain comes from replacing the catted headers and adding a high flow intake then getting a tune to take advantage of the new flowing parts. Slip ons are really just to add some growl to your bike, no real performance gain.

Can you run with the stage 1 flash you had done already with a new free flowing 2 into 1 pipe and a/c?

Yes.

Will it run optimal?

No.

Will it pop on decel?

Probably.

Will you leave power on the table using a pre built map instead of a custom dyno tune?

Yes.

What are you goals? If you are adding a 2into1 I would think performance is important. Being a brand new bike I imagine longevity is important. If those two are true I would recommend the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner and a dyno tune.

The "dealer flash" is "safe for 50 states", which means its a de-tuned flash that is generally safe and has small performance increases for all pipe/intake combinations. So if you want to just get by that will work. However where I am in Denver, 5k feet elevation, we have a lot less oxygen than sea level guys so it makes sense that we will need different maps flashed. I couldnt be happier with my dyno tune. All pipes and intakes flow a lil different, heck even the same model bikes same mods will perform a lil different on a dyno so its best to get a custom tune. You spend 25k on a bike whats 500 bucks on a tuner/dyno tune to make it run optimally?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I plan on purchasing a Thundermax when I do my cams, headwork, and High Comp pistons and will be getting dyno'd at that time. I am just trying to avoid $300-500 worth of dyno work now to turn around and pay that again within the next 6 months-year.
 

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It depends on what you expect out of the bike and what is already on it. Will it run better with a Race Tuner and a Dyno tune? Absolutely. Is it necessary? Not really.

The stage 1 flash is what it is. It is still epa compliant thus it is canned map that harley uses. Does the bike run good with a stage 1 flash? Not in my opinion. I assume if you are going to a 2 into 1 pipe you want more power?

If so then talk to Frank and talk to Fuel Moto as they provide a lot of good tuner solutions as well. If you are happy with the way the bike performs right now just leave it as is.

I did a lot of motor work and had a Dyno tune on my fatboy and the bike was night and day after the Dyno tune. My RG has a Power Commander 5 with air cleaner and pipes and i bought it this way. It runs fine for what I use it fopr but if I were to do a build with cams, heads, and pistons and cylinders I'd get a Dyno tune done so I get the most out of my investment.

This is the kind of question that you expect different answers for different people as their opinions all vary. It's kind of like asking someone what their favorite color is. You might get the same answer two or three times but not everyone likes the same color.
 

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So if you have the stage 1 thats all you need.. If you want then buy the tmax and let it autotune and be done.. Dont worry about the dyno till you get the other work down.. Either way you are good
 

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The main difference in what you have now and what you are going to do is the new de-catted head pipes. The new head pipes will increase exhaust flow and make the bike run a bit cooler (with the right tune).
Since you have the stage 1 flashed into the ECM ride the bike and see how it reacts with the new exhaust. If the bike has popping on decel and runs hotter than normal then a reflash or a tuner will be in your future.
If you are looking to get the T-Max call Frank at Dragos he has the best prices.
 

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Your partial stage 1 download was built based on a catted head pipe. now you're taking the cats out of the equation which will cause the bike to run lean with a free flowing exhaust. HD isn't going to have anything you can really use in "download" form which is why they want to sell you a SERT. I personally would go that route just because more air means a leaner condition unless fuel map is changed as well. Is it required, probably not, but you're only looking at problems if you don't map it properly. IMO the HD stage 1 download is a huge waste of money and $85-100 that could easily have been put towards a changeable tuner of sorts. Good luck.
 

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So if you have the stage 1 thats all you need.. If you want then buy the tmax and let it autotune and be done.. Dont worry about the dyno till you get the other work down.. Either way you are good
^ This...

If you plan more mods... just get a Power Vision and have fun with it...
 

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The stage 1 download is also EPA compliant which makes it useless in my mind. Relying on a dealer to do motor work is like going to McDonald's for sushi. It just makes no sense. Go to someone who specializes in motor work if you want to be happy with your build.

I understand wanting to keep the warranty intact which is why I always wait until my warranty is up before I do motor work.
 

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The stage 1 download is also EPA compliant which makes it useless in my mind. Relying on a dealer to do motor work is like going to McDonald's for sushi. It just makes no sense. Go to someone who specializes in motor work if you want to be happy with your build.

I understand wanting to keep the warranty intact which is why I always wait until my warranty is up before I do motor work.
I bet ya that McDonald's sushi sucks. :eek:
 

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I had the stage1 upgrade with full headers so I would think your good, one deal tryed to tell me I needed a race tuner for this but a brother had the same pipe on his with just the stage1 air cleaner and cumputer upload. So thats what I did.
 

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I'm going to elaborate a little and then be done with this thread. You don't NEED anything but if you want to get the most out of teh parts you avhe added then it makes logical sense to get a tuner and a Dyno tune. If you don't care about that just leave it as is.

The question you avhe to ask yourself is what are your expectations and goals with these parts you have added to the bike? Like I said above, a bike with a tuner and proper dyno tune (I'd never have a dealer dyno my ride) will run much better than one with a stage 1 download. I'd find a dyno guy who specializes in Harley and not worry about the cost as you will get a better tune in my opinion. But if you are happy with the bike now forget about it.

You can spend as much or as little as you like however the results will not be the same. Do your research on dyno tuners in your area and see who is highly recommended. Personally, I'd drive 2 or 3 hours for a better tune and pay more without issue.
 

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I have a Zippers max flow A/C and a Bassanni 2-1 pipe. I went with a powervision from fuel moto with one of their maps. It was very close. I have run auto tune a few times and the bike runs fantastic. No popping etc... I went with the powervision because I will probably go with cams after my warranty is up. I have had very good luck with the maps from fuel moto and autotune has worked very well for me.

Do you have to have a tuner, No. Will the bike run better if you do. Yes.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Guys thanks for all the replies. I agree a proper dyno tune and on fuelie bikes a good programmer will get the most out of what you put in. This will be my 4th bike to have motor work done and dyno'd. What I am trying to avoid is having to pay that $200-$500 in dyno tuning now just to spend it again 6 months from now when I decide to put cams in.. would be a complete waste of money to do it now just to turn around and do it again when we do the cams. I agree with letting a non dealer do the work but Harley gave me a total of 5 years warranty and I can't wait that long for motor work and odds are will be rebuilding the motor by then anyway because will more than likely have more than 100,000 miles on the bike by then so guess my local harley shop will be doing cams and tuning.
 

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i avoided 2 dyno tunes as you are wanting to do, so i purchased a power commander and used a map from fuel moto for the first 2 years. when i put in cams, i did the dyno tune- so only paid for 1 dyno tune.
the race tuners dont have maps that im aware of, so i would choose another tuner and run a map until you do the build. yer gonna need one at some point.


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