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Discussion Starter #1
Whats the difference between a Harley race runer and say a power commander or the vance and hines fuel tuner? I am so confused and frustrated about what to go with on my setup. the dealer says only go with theirs, Vance and hines theirs... etc...
Its just overwhelming. I plan on keeping the bike for a while. I have a 010 RGC and am trying to figure out what I wanna do with the exhaust and intake...

Im almost to the point of just throwing a slip-on on the bike and keeping my
$1500 that its gonna cost me to change it over to duals. Can someone pleeeease help!

I can see going with the harley Race tuner because they should know their own bike im guessin... but if i dont have to spend the 500$ for it i would rather not.



Natalie
 

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Whats the difference between a Harley race runer and say a power commander or the vance and hines fuel tuner? I am so confused and frustrated about what to go with on my setup. the dealer says only go with theirs, Vance and hines theirs... etc...
Its just overwhelming. I plan on keeping the bike for a while. I have a 010 RGC and am trying to figure out what I wanna do with the exhaust and intake...

Im almost to the point of just throwing a slip-on on the bike and keeping my
$1500 that its gonna cost me to change it over to duals. Can someone pleeeease help!

I can see going with the harley Race tuner because they should know their own bike im guessin... but if i dont have to spend the 500$ for it i would rather not.



Natalie
Vance & Hines will only add or take away fuel and utilizes o2 sensors. Pretty easy to plug in the numbers for your set up.
Pwr Cmdr will do the same but will also adjust timing, fuel to each cyl and does not utilize o2 sensors. Maps are available for your set up which you upload into the Pwr Cmdr from your computer.
SERT or SEST will do the same as Pwr Cmdr but utilizes o2 sensers and is not add on hardware, programs directly into you ECM.
Much more to it than what I mentioned but that's the basics. People will debate tuners until they're blue in the face. Personally I like Power Commanders and I just ordered one from Fuelmoto. I have a fuelpak for '09 and 2010 touring for sale loaded with the correct numbers for your bike. If interested send me a pm.
SERT, SEST, Pwr Cmdr can be dyno tuned if you want to spend the money. Fuelpak cannot be dyno tuned. Fuelpak is the cheapest way to go and your bike will perform pretty well with it.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Does one or the other have any impact on the longevity of the engine?
 

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I prefer the Power Commander as well, but that's because I do tuning and the Power Commander is really more for those who like to do some tweaking around.

If you're looking for plug it in and forget it, I'd go with the Fuel Pak. It's easy and V&H has good support.

To my knowledge, they all disable the O2s, the Power Commander has you actually unplug the sensors, and the Fuel Pak just turns them off in the calibration.

Now, something else to consider..... if you want the ULTIMATE setup, get the Power Commander, and get the Auto Tune upgrade for it. The Auto Tune upgrade adds wide band O2s into the exhaust and the computer makes actual, accurate fuel adjustments in real time. BUT, keep in mind that the 2010 exhaust uses these new little O2s. So if you plan to get the auto tune setup, I suggest getting the 09 dual pipe setup, so that you can just put the wide band O2s into the stock locations. Or if you're going to use a brand other than V&H, make sure they come with the large O2 bungs.
 

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Does one or the other have any impact on the longevity of the engine?
Not that I am aware of. All of them will richen your mixture which if anything will help your engine because making it richer will make it run cooler. They come from the factory pretty lean to pass EPA regulations.

Fuelpak: cheap, used $150 or less. make your engine run cooler and smoother.

Pwr Cmdr PCV: $299 + $12.95 shipping from fuelmoto with the correct map for your set up.

Pwr Cmdr +auto tune: About $600.

SEST: About $400 from a dealer + about $100 installation. Plus if you make any changes, pipes, air cleaner, etc. it's back to the dealer and give 'em more money.

TTS: Abour $425 + $69 for a USB cable and it's about like the SEST but it's a do-it-yourself.

Guys spend a ton of money on tuners and I'd venture to say 99% of them will never see a drag strip.
 

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Not that I am aware of. All of them will richen your mixture which if anything will help your engine because making it richer will make it run cooler. They come from the factory pretty lean to pass EPA regulations.

Fuelpak: cheap, used $150 or less. make your engine run cooler and smoother.

Pwr Cmdr PCV: $299 + $12.95 shipping from fuelmoto with the correct map for your set up.

Pwr Cmdr +auto tune: About $600.

SEST: About $400 from a dealer + about $100 installation. Plus if you make any changes, pipes, air cleaner, etc. it's back to the dealer and give 'em more money.

TTS: Abour $425 + $69 for a USB cable and it's about like the SEST but it's a do-it-yourself.

Guys spend a ton of money on tuners and I'd venture to say 99% of them will never see a drag strip.
I have the Power Commander V with Auto tune. The beauty of it is, if you make future changes to the engine or exhaust you can download a new map for your mods. Ride the bike for for a few hours and the auto tune will make fine adjustments on the fly to keep your engine running properly. No need to have to pay a dealer to dyno tune it for you :D
 

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I have the Power Commander V with Auto tune. The beauty of it is, if you make future changes to the engine or exhaust you can download a new map for your mods. Ride the bike for for a few hours and the auto tune will make fine adjustments on the fly to keep your engine running properly. No need to have to pay a dealer to dyno tune it for you :D
How much you have to give for that auto tune?
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Does the manufacturers have more than just the maps that they post on the website? Or do you just have to find a combo that is close to what you are runnin?
 

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I went with the Zippers ThunderMax autotune, and I hear great things about the TTS.

I pulled my SERT because I couldn't find a decent tuner within a few hundred miles. Local yocal did over 100 runs on the bike and still wasn't there. Were talking $$$$$$$$

I Installed the T-Max (peace of cake in a couple of hours), loaded the basemap and started riding. You just pick a combo that is close to yours. That's it, no muss no fuss no beating the bike to death on the dyno. great mileage, good power, happy owner. Like has been mentioned before, if I change pipes or do more head work, I can load a new map or if its close, just let it learn.

If you want to go with a tuner, talk to lots of local guys. If there is a competent tuner in your area go with what they like to use. jmo
 

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Does the manufacturers have more than just the maps that they post on the website? Or do you just have to find a combo that is close to what you are runnin?
Mfgrs usually only have what is posted.
Some retailers, fullsac, fulemoto actually might have more than the mfgrs.
Fuelpak have more than what is posted. Send them an email with what you have and they'll send you the numbers to manually put in.
That's why people get dyno tunes. With a dyno tune you have a map that exactly matches your bike. Problem is alot of dyno tunes are not done by competant people and you might spend $250 and up and wind up with a bad tune.
Is your RGC stock? What upgrades do you plan on? If you just want pipes with the stock a/c you really don't need a tuner. Once you get the high flow air cleaner you will need a tuner. Or, with just pipes and a/c you could get a stage 1 download from your dealer for about $150. Dealers want your money and 99% say their product is the best which is not always true. In my opinion the best tuner on the market is TTS. It works like the pwr cmdr with autotune but puts everything in the ECM. Like I said it's a do-it-yourself deal and probably intimidating to alot of folks.
 

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I went with the Zippers ThunderMax autotune, and I hear great things about the TTS.

I pulled my SERT because I couldn't find a decent tuner within a few hundred miles. Local yocal did over 100 runs on the bike and still wasn't there. Were talking $$$$$$$$

I Installed the T-Max (peace of cake in a couple of hours), loaded the basemap and started riding. You just pick a combo that is close to yours. That's it, no muss no fuss no beating the bike to death on the dyno. great mileage, good power, happy owner. Like has been mentioned before, if I change pipes or do more head work, I can load a new map or if its close, just let it learn.

If you want to go with a tuner, talk to lots of local guys. If there is a competent tuner in your area go with what they like to use. jmo
I would love to have the Thundermax, It's just EXPENSIVE. One of those items you have to put on the list and plan for.
 

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They are quite expensive and the price went up a bit in the last year or so, but think of it this way.

Usual tune is minimum 3 hours on the dyno (for each change) and I have seen that number be higher.

So, lets say you do your pipes, air cleaner & a mild cam this year, but plan on doing the heads and a more aggressive cam next year. That's another 3-4 hrs on the dyno.

The following year you get a bonus at work and decide to take your 96" to a 110". Another 3-4 hrs on the dyno.

Total dyno time about 10-12 hrs @ $100/hr. The math is pretty easy ;)
 

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I went with the Zippers ThunderMax autotune, and I hear great things about the TTS.

I pulled my SERT because I couldn't find a decent tuner within a few hundred miles. Local yocal did over 100 runs on the bike and still wasn't there. Were talking $$$$$$$$

I Installed the T-Max (peace of cake in a couple of hours), loaded the basemap and started riding. You just pick a combo that is close to yours. That's it, no muss no fuss no beating the bike to death on the dyno. great mileage, good power, happy owner. Like has been mentioned before, if I change pipes or do more head work, I can load a new map or if its close, just let it learn.

If you want to go with a tuner, talk to lots of local guys. If there is a competent tuner in your area go with what they like to use. jmo
That's a problem with a SERT or any other tuner for that matter. Finding a good tuner. The closest good tuner for me is $350 away.It's very possible to pay several hundered dollars for a dyno tune only to get a bad tune. That's why I went with a PCV from Fuelmoto. They have maps for everything and all their maps come from actual dyno tunes. Alot of guys put down canned maps but Fuelmoto tells me they have found very little difference from bike to bike.
 

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RGChick, I went with a Stage 1 download. I put Reinharts and Screamneagle Heavy Breather. You could go with a Thunderheader Muffler and Breather, get the download and be fine. Its all up to you. I have a guy thats in Dayton that did a SERT on my 2005 FLHTCSE2. His name is Dean and owned American Custom Cycles. He closed up last year and is now doing everything out of his Garage. He has done bikes from all over the Country. He is the Best!He's a Family Man and not on DRUGS. If you would like his Cell, to call and ask him about the whole situation, I'll be glad to give it to ya. There is a difference and you will notice it, either way! I wouldnt spend any money other than on a SERT with a Dyno Tune or do the download from Harley. That would be my only 2 options.IMHO. If your Dealer has a Dyno go talk to the Tuner. But Dean is the Man here.I live in Fairfeild, Dean came to my House and picked my Bike up. Dyno tuning is not cheap, but it is all up to you.
 

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How much you have to give for that auto tune?
I think I paid $299 for the Auto tune. I bought it from FuelMoto and did a little tweaking on my map to give me a bit more fuel in the lower rpms and lower throttle percentages.

There are very few shops in the country that can dyno a trike and none are very close to me to have made it worth while to use
 

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Couple of comments for RGchick, just some things to think about. What do you want?

If you just want to do pipes and breather go with the download, you should be happy.

If you ever want to do more (heads, cams, etc) you are going to pay more to install some type of system that can manage the changes. The cost of the download is down the crapper.

Fuel modifiers can only add fuel in certain bands, very limited flexibility.

Some thoughts to consider; dyno time is expensive and in my experience, it is hard to find good tuners. In the days of Evo's and carbs, pretty much every shop was able to tune bikes and get good results. Many of these tuners are completely lost when it comes to the complex new FI systems. Carb's are very forgiving, FI isn't because it is so precise.

One disadvantage of SERT; after each run the bike must be brought back to idle, then the ignition must be switched off and on to save the changes. With a Power Commander the tuner can save changes as the bike idles down, and do his next run. Saves on expensive dyno time.

The Power Commander V will run you just under $300 and the autotune modules about the same, so around $600. The PCV ties into the existing ECM, in other words modifies the settings after the stock ECM.

TTS Master Tune is made by the same company that made the SERT and SE Super Tuner. As I said before, I have heard good things about it. This system does "learn", but still requires some of that expensive dyno time.

T-Max replaces the stock ECM which is one of the reasons it is more expensive. This system is simple to install and load basemaps. From there you just ride the bike and every so often read/write the tables to save the learned offsets. This actually speeds learning.

I am not a salesman, but I am happy with the system and it would have saved me a ton of money if I had installed it sooner. I have had it on the bike for two years now and have had zero problems.
 

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Couple of comments for RGchick, just some things to think about. What do you want?

If you just want to do pipes and breather go with the download, you should be happy.

If you ever want to do more (heads, cams, etc) you are going to pay more to install some type of system that can manage the changes. The cost of the download is down the crapper.

Fuel modifiers can only add fuel in certain bands, very limited flexibility.

Some thoughts to consider; dyno time is expensive and in my experience, it is hard to find good tuners. In the days of Evo's and carbs, pretty much every shop was able to tune bikes and get good results. Many of these tuners are completely lost when it comes to the complex new FI systems. Carb's are very forgiving, FI isn't because it is so precise.

One disadvantage of SERT; after each run the bike must be brought back to idle, then the ignition must be switched off and on to save the changes. With a Power Commander the tuner can save changes as the bike idles down, and do his next run. Saves on expensive dyno time.

The Power Commander V will run you just under $300 and the autotune modules about the same, so around $600. The PCV ties into the existing ECM, in other words modifies the settings after the stock ECM.

TTS Master Tune is made by the same company that made the SERT and SE Super Tuner. As I said before, I have heard good things about it. This system does "learn", but still requires some of that expensive dyno time.

T-Max replaces the stock ECM which is one of the reasons it is more expensive. This system is simple to install and load basemaps. From there you just ride the bike and every so often read/write the tables to save the learned offsets. This actually speeds learning.

I am not a salesman, but I am happy with the system and it would have saved me a ton of money if I had installed it sooner. I have had it on the bike for two years now and have had zero problems.


I do not see a Thundermax product for the '08-'10 touring bikes.
 

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I saw they had 01-10 big twins listed.

I just looked again and noticed the small note that says it excludes 08-10 FL's with Throttle by Wire. :(

Damn, I may email them to see if they are developing something or if its a no go.

Thanks
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Being the way that I am i think i am gonna go with the SERT, I had stopped by both local dealers around here and they had good things to say about all the systems except for the VH fuel tuner. But they did caution that any issues that I had with the other systems could potentially void the warranty on the bike.

Im gonna go with the SERT, I know that I am gonna have the bike for a while, Im sure that next year im gonna wanna change the cams/heads 103 etc... its only a matter of time lol. A bike builder friend of mine up in cleveland can get me as much dyno time as I need at their shop and have all the software to setup the SERT.

As far as exhaust i like the VnH's Power Duals and am gonna hold out for the monster rounds that they just released. Thanks for all the great info here Its been a big help!
 

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Being the way that I am i think i am gonna go with the SERT, I had stopped by both local dealers around here and they had good things to say about all the systems except for the VH fuel tuner. But they did caution that any issues that I had with the other systems could potentially void the warranty on the bike.

Im gonna go with the SERT, I know that I am gonna have the bike for a while, Im sure that next year im gonna wanna change the cams/heads 103 etc... its only a matter of time lol. A bike builder friend of mine up in cleveland can get me as much dyno time as I need at their shop and have all the software to setup the SERT.

As far as exhaust i like the VnH's Power Duals and am gonna hold out for the monster rounds that they just released. Thanks for all the great info here Its been a big help!
You will be happy with the SERT.
 
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