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Discussion Starter #1
Well i have decided to get the bike tuned, i cant get the HD street tuner beyond certain self tunes perameters and what i mean i am getting back fire when i roll off the throttle. So this is my dilemma. Due i spend the $300 and let Harley fine tune the street tuner or do i get a new TTS and have a performance shop due it for $879. The bike runs well but i know there is still more there that i am not going to get doing on my own. So what do you think?
 

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Well i have decided to get the bike tuned, i cant get the HD street tuner beyond certain self tunes perameters and what i mean i am getting back fire when i roll off the throttle. So this is my dilemma. Due i spend the $300 and let Harley fine tune the street tuner or do i get a new TTS and have a performance shop due it for $879. The bike runs well but i know there is still more there that i am not going to get doing on my own. So what do you think?
First what year bike do you have ? If your talking about the Pro Street Tuner there isn’t much adjusting that can be done. It is epa compliant. The TTS is by far a better tuner but if your worried about warranty it will void it on a 17 or newer.


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Well i have decided to get the bike tuned, i cant get the HD street tuner beyond certain self tunes perameters and what i mean i am getting back fire when i roll off the throttle.
It is not necessarily the tuner. You may have an exhaust or intake leak. Couple of old methods you could use to see if that is the case are to start the bike, hold the rpms at about 2k, and spray some starting fluid in the area of the intake gaskets. If the bike changes rpms or even chokes out there is an intake leak. If that checks out ok then take one of those long lighters and hold the flame near where the exhaust attaches to the head while the bike is at idle. If air is blowing on the flame then you know you have an exhaust leak.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The roll off pop is not always there just once in a while and its when i shift i between 2nd and 3rd. Like i said its not always there. My exhaust is a 2-1 and my bike is a 2017 FLTRXS
 

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TTS

I have had it on my 2012 and had it tuned 3 different times:

Stage 1
Stage 2
107" Big bore upgrade

Just be sure your Dyno guy knows how to get the most out of the TTS

I love mine
 

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The roll off pop is not always there just once in a while and its when i shift i between 2nd and 3rd. Like i said its not always there. My exhaust is a 2-1 and my bike is a 2017 FLTRXS
I would still want to make sure of what is really causing the issue rather than just throwing money at it and guessing. The TTS is by far the better device and if you are not concerned about warranty that's what I would go with. Even over the TMax and the PV. Although they are great devices as well. If you do have a slight intake leak it may not show up all the time as parts expand and contract.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey RG the only thing i have done just recently is put a 2-1 on it. Do you think that could be it?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I did the recording data while riding process and downloaded the recommended calibrations.
 

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I did the recording data while riding process and downloaded the recommended calibrations.
Ok... If you changed the exhaust to something that is more open than stock and you added an open air cleaner you would have to start with the Stage I MAP and install it, then do the recording sessions to fine tune it. Now with that said IF you do not have an exhaust or intake leak the TTS is a great choice. $400 bucks that will do anything any technician would need to do. The ThunderMax is great but I don't think it is necessary if you don't want to spend a grand for a tuner.

3 pulls plus the cost of the hardware.

And people say Tmax's are too expensive.
I don't think they are too expensive for what they do but I think it can be a bit overkill. Now you can change my mind as I am open but I fail to see why he would need to spend $1k for the TMax when a $400 TTS would get him where he needs to be. Providing there is no other issues with the bike of course.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Alright i checked it and there is no exhaust leak at the head pipe. Had to go to a company picnic about 40 miles away and i must say she runs strong when i crack that throttle out on the highway, but occasionally i get a little back fire. (Funny back in the day we use to think that was cool). Maybe i am over thinking this.
 

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I don't think they are too expensive for what they do but I think it can be a bit overkill. Now you can change my mind as I am open but I fail to see why he would need to spend $1k for the TMax when a $400 TTS would get him where he needs to be. Providing there is no other issues with the bike of course.
I'm not going to change your mind, thats work for folks who actually get paid by Tmax.

But I will throw out a couple of personal observations.

No dyno pulls makes up for the difference in cost. And the ability to do stuff like swapping out cans without reflashing is a time saver.

But for me the big selling point is the Tmax using Alpha-N management strategy.
 

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I'm not going to change your mind, thats work for folks who actually get paid by Tmax.

But I will throw out a couple of personal observations.

No dyno pulls makes up for the difference in cost. And the ability to do stuff like swapping out cans without reflashing is a time saver.

But for me the big selling point is the Tmax using Alpha-N management strategy.
I guess I'm looking at it from the standpoint of not necessarily having to have it dyno tuned but I guess that would not be an option for most. I would just have TTS send me a MAP for my setup and do a few recording sessions to get it more dialed in if needed but I understand that the TTS may not be as simple to use as the TMax. I've installed a few TMax's on bikes for friends after doing mods and have had no issues with it. Just that nothing struck me to make me feel that it was something more special than the PV. I do agree with your point about paying for Dyno tuning plus the other device for those that would need to do it. I am also one that knows enough with these things to be dangerous and although I can get the job done and can get the bike to run very well, I'm not a 20+ year dyno tuning pro.
 

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IMO, it's like anything else in regard to performance mods....what do you want the bike to do, and how do you want to make it run? (Side effect: how deep are your pockets?) It's been my experience that there isn't a good substitute for a good dyno tune performed by a competent, experienced dyno tuner. I've also seen so-called auto-tune setups that do more harm than good. They've all got their pros and cons, and it comes down to what you want and what you can afford in some cases. Like anything else, it's also possible to go well overboard on what you need to get the job done, but that's where time and personal research come in. The stuff I'm about to do is fairly mild, and the pro-street tuner is more than sufficient to get that job done. When you get deeper into performance, it seems to me that Powervision can get the job done if you can get a map that's pretty spot-on to your configuration. The TTS software is pretty damned versatile, but needs a good tune to get the most bang for your buck. T-Max is a brilliant system, and it's got a ton of great features, but I think it's a little above and beyond what the average rider needs. Only you can decide what works best for you and your needs. The great thing about this forum is that there are plenty of folks willing to share their knowledge and experience without talking down to anybody, and that sets us apart.
 

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It's been my experience that there isn't a good substitute for a good dyno tune performed by a competent, experienced dyno tuner.
Not to highjack the thread but I just said this to a tech that I know and he is a very good tuner in his own right and he told me that the software is getting so good now that the autotune feature can actually be better than a human tune in lot of cases. He said that it is constantly looking for a specific AFR and keeps the bike in that range. Now for peak numbers on a pull a human can get the best there but for everyday riding he said the autotune can work extremely well.
 

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Not to highjack the thread but I just said this to a tech that I know and he is a very good tuner in his own right and he told me that the software is getting so good now that the autotune feature can actually be better than a human tune in lot of cases. He said that it is constantly looking for a specific AFR and keeps the bike in that range. Now for peak numbers on a pull a human can get the best there but for everyday riding he said the autotune can work extremely well.
The only thing I'd hold against that as a blanket statement is that I've seen too many O2 sensors, wideband or otherwise, go bad, and when they crap out, it's usually not an immediate failure, but rather a degradation over time. I think if you can run the bike hard over a variety of conditions and get it where you want it early then lock it in, sure, I'm all in. Leaving that adjustment feature on has the capability to do just as much harm as good IMO, but ya know what they say about opinions :grin: The equipment (and the software) is just as good as the operator.
 

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The only thing I'd hold against that as a blanket statement is that I've seen too many O2 sensors, wideband or otherwise, go bad, and when they crap out, it's usually not an immediate failure, but rather a degradation over time. I think if you can run the bike hard over a variety of conditions and get it where you want it early then lock it in, sure, I'm all in. Leaving that adjustment feature on has the capability to do just as much harm as good IMO, but ya know what they say about opinions :grin: The equipment (and the software) is just as good as the operator.
In context to our conversation I never took it as him saying leave the autotune on all the time. I took it as getting the bike tuned and lock it in.
 

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In context to our conversation I never took it as him saying leave the autotune on all the time. I took it as getting the bike tuned and lock it in.
Indeed. I see a lot of people who leave it on thinking they're making something better. As a wise friend and instructor once told me, "Russ, better is often times the enemy of good fuckin' enough!"
 
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