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Is it me or does the new HD Pan American enduro looks a lot like a BMW R1200GS? Reviewing the promo video’s it certainly does, however, I hope it has a better sound than the Beamers. Pricing looks competitive at $17,000.00 just under 1K below the beamer. What do you guys think?
 

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There are things to like about it, assuming that the MoCo spent all of these months making sure it was free of engineering defects and ready for market.

I don't really like the whole enduro concept, but then I'm a little long in the tooth for that market. I'm old enough to remember the enduros of the 70's. They were not very good street bikes, and not very good in the dirt. Just passable at both.

IMHO, Harley should have never focused in on the jeep driving suburban living folks and doubled down on developing new riders for the product niche they already control. What they are calling a future performance scooter should have been what they came to market with.
 

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I own two on/off road bikes.
From my internet research on the subject:
The vast majority of adventure touring bike riders never take them on more than dirt roads that any motorcycle can safely navigate at slow speeds.
Adventure touring bikes are popular because of there upright riding position and supple long travel suspension.
They are comfortable.
 

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I guess it's a good thing that HD brought this to market, even though it's not something I would buy. I see no resemblance with the BMW at all, but that's an opinion of an old, die in da wool HD guy.

Sure wish it was the Bronx that was being released
I would make a trip to a dealership to see one, and maybe test ride one
 
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I own two on/off road bikes.
From my internet research on the subject:
The vast majority of adventure touring bike riders never take them on more than dirt roads that any motorcycle can safely navigate at slow speeds.
Adventure touring bikes are popular because of there upright riding position and supple long travel suspension.
They are comfortable.
+1 Most every bike magazine that ever reviewed the GS over the past 20 years have raved about the riding position and the comfort of the extra long suspension. Several times it was chosen as the "Best Touring Bike" against not just the competition , but also against both the 2 and 4 cyl. specialized touring bikes that BMW produced. Several main stream magazine editors said that if you put more street oriented tires on them they might be the best overall street bike on the market. Really a 'jack of all trades' bike. I've never even sat on one but I've always wanted to ride one for a day. The upright riding position is a lot like what they used to call "standard" style bikes or UJM bikes. Very comfortable to ride and capable of doing most anything asked of it, but they were eliminated by all of the specialization that started occurring back in the 70s. Unless the MoCo has screwed this up, this should be pretty much the most comfortable riding position and best suspension of any model they make.
 

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From my perspective, even though I'll never own one, the Pan America was the best model to introduce the new motor/platform. if the initial real reviews are favorable, they'll sell everyone they can produce for the first year or two. Over the past year or so we've certainly had plenty of folks on here who have said they'd consider buying one as a second bike. It is the fastest growing segment of motorcycling over the past 10+ years and HD is very late to the party but will still have adequate market share especially from those who already ride the HD brand. I suspect the Covid driven 'back to nature' movement will keep that going strong for the forseeable future. Unlike the total flop of the EV bike, this one will be a run away sales success IF it performs on par with what's out there now. It won't likely be 'the best' at anything, it just needs to be in the ballpark with the motor, frame, and suspension. I think it'll be fun to see the MoCo introduce a truly new model that lots of people are excited to get their hands on. It's been a long time since that has occurred. The V-Rod was probably the last one.
 

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I'm waiting on the PA to hit the dealships so I can decide which large ADV to go with. I've been researching ADV bikes for the past 3 years and may have already pulled the trigger until HD anounced the PA was coming. The king in that class for best all around ADV bike over 1000cc's has been the BMW R1250GS. Well HD was not the only brand that is taking a swing at the Beemer because Ducati just came out with an all new Multistrada V4S that is not only a competitor to the GS but has already converted a few GS owners in it's first week of hitting the dealerships. I just test rode one last Wednesday and I'm here to tell you this thing is the real deal. It has the power of the KTM Super Adventure and the refinement of the GS. I have tried many non HD bikes over the past few years that I loved and almost bought a BMW K1600 once but the deal just wasn't sweet enough. At the end of the day every time I would get back on my Shark I would feel that it was still the 1 bike for me. After riding the new Ducati I have to say if they had been able to sell me one that day I would have brought it home. The good thing is that the bike I rode was a demo and the only V4S that they had. He told me they couldn't sell that bike for 90 days and that there were 4 people in front of me that had already placed deposits to get the next bikes in the door. It might be as late as May before I could get one if I decide to get one. I've decided that I will try the PA and see how it feels before I decide though. HD better bring out all the stops with the new PA because other brands are stepping up their game in that genre. The plus of the PA vs the Ducati will be the price. At least if it is along the lines of the rumors that are out there that are saying it will start at around $17k. The Duc MTS base model starts at $19,900 for the V4 and then it steps up to $24,600 for the V4S then around $26k for their V4S Sport model. If HD brings its "A" game and undercuts on price they may do pretty well with sells. That's a BIG IF because they don't have a great track record of giving us what we want for the right price.
 

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I really don't know how this will go. I'm not really sold that people in the market will cross shop HD brand. Unless it's light and priced right. Hard to imagine that it will be priced right given they ask 30 grand for the Livewire.

Hd is kinda known for heavy cruiser and not necessarily the fastest or most powerful things out there. I do hope it goes well, hope the suspension is what is really needed for adventure type riding.
 

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I ride a 2018 GSA Rallye (pictured above). I've owned several of them and multiple KTM's. The BMW is one of the most underrated sport-touring bikes on the market. I wish Harley (have owned and ridden since 1979) good luck in this market, they have some big shoes to step into.
 

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I just noticed the front turn signals are in the hand guards. That might not be a good idea. Hand guards are usually the first thing to get smacked.
 

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I've heard/read for years that these kinds of bikes are great all-day cruisers . . . so I'm sure they must be and my personal experience must be a flier. I've never ridden one, but always curious to ride anything on two wheels. I always think back to a few years ago we got a group of about a dozen friends and acquaintances together for a day-long ride into and around the mountains. About 3 hours into the ride I look in my mirrors and all the adventure riders behind me were standing up on their pegs. When we stopped they all thought the ride was too long to be comfortable, including one spouse riding 2up. None of them ever expressed an interest in riding with us on our longer, multi-day rides.

I hope this is a good bike for HD. And I hope they don't have a demo day here with them. I don't really need a second bike and if it's great it might be a temptation. And it would fit in with some of the potential riding plans I could possibly do in the next couple years (before I'm too old to hold up a bike :) ).

And one last stray thought for the morning here marketing-wise . . . .. if HD did a good job with this bike I think there might be some draw to the brand from some of the ADV guys. In the US HD carries a good "mystique" and I've heard metric friends talk about the appeal. It has to be a good bike, but if it is I think some of these guys would like to try the HD brand. I often think back to a time at a gas station where some gal walks over to a guy near me and asks about his bike. He tells her what brand it is - which I don't remember now - but it wasn't a Harley. She just says "Oh, it's not a harley" . . .. spins on her heels and walks off. Felt sorry for the guy and thought she wasn't much of a female.
 

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I ride a 2018 GSA Rallye (pictured above). I've owned several of them and multiple KTM's. The BMW is one of the most underrated sport-touring bikes on the market. I wish Harley (have owned and ridden since 1979) good luck in this market, they have some big shoes to step into.
I think if you are looking at "Sports-Touring" reviews you are looking at reviews in the wrong catagory as the GS is not considered a sports-touring bike. That would be more the XR or KTM SD GT or the Kawasaki Concourse. If you look at reviews in the "Adventure-Touring" catagory you will find that it is the one that gets the all around best reviews. The KTM SA has been known as the fastest and most aggressive. Others have had charachtaeristics that my be better than the GS but as the best at everything bike the GS is the king in every review I have read or watched on youtube. It is far from under-rated.
 

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I believe that anyone needs to work up to all day riding. That is the advice I give anyone planning their first road trip.

As we all know, the stock seat is great for 20 miles at a time and maybe more for some riders, but most people who ride distance on any motorcycle customize or change out the seat.

I did a 400 mile ride on the OEM RGU seat. One time. That is when I knew I needed a different seat. The OEM seat on the Special only got ridden the 30 miles home from the dealer and now hangs on the wall for when I part with the bike.

It is really the suspension on these adventure bikes that make them special. Especially the ones with electronically adjustable suspension systems. In comfort mode they just soak up the bumps, but in that mode the bike would wallow while aggressively taking the curves. Hit a button and put the bike into sport mode and fly through the curves and then put back into comfort mode.

It doesn't sound like Harley is putting electronically adjustable suspension, so most people find the best compromise setting and make manual adjustments if they anticipate a certain type of riding surface for the day.

I have no interest in going back to liquid cooled bikes for the time being. This might be my next adventure bike if I even get another bike before I retire.

2021 Moto Guzzi V85TT 100th Anniversary. Celebrating 100 years of continuous production in the same factory in Italy. With full aluminum luggage it runs about $13,000.

424083

424084

424085
 

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These style bikes have one draw back . The seat height they are a bit tall. HD market leans towards lower seats. To much inseam was a big non starter for the XG750. Dealers had that WTF were they thing on the brain.
The PA with road tires and a few tweaks could be an amazing road bike for many. Keep the weight down the power up , the cost in reasonable range.
The only real interest I have in the PA is the engine. If HD did it right it could be a power house and work into other models.. It could turn the next generation Sporty into a monster. The engine in the XG750 was not bad and had room to grow. My Street 750 with less HP than the XG750 and 2,000 less RPMs runs darn good.
 
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