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I have a 2011 RGU with Big Sucker intake and Rhinehart 2 into one tuned with Power Commander 4. What is the best bang for the buck? Can 100/120 be achieved with reliability or is this too much? I like to ride long distance and have fun in the twisties but hate it when my club brothers smoke me off the line. What is a good compromise. I'd like to do my head work the same time I put a cam in and I'd like them to match. A previous post showed me looking at Dave Mackies stuff but it doesn't look like a lot of guys know anything about him.
 

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All it takes is money. Big power down low breaks bottoms and primary components if you have a lot of power and a lot to get moving. HD valve trains also hate hole shots. Horsepower motors turning 6500rpms smoke rings and valve trains but IME are not as hard on the drive parts. Find a happy medium talking to a builder. IMO you'd do best running with them from the pocket and showing your back fender once you get her moving.

20 guys can dispute my statements, they're just my experience breaking stuff. Roll-on from 2500-5500 is the way I went his time. Time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
All it takes is money. Big power down low breaks bottoms and primary components if you have a lot of power and a lot to get moving. HD valve trains also hate hole shots. Horsepower motors turning 6500rpms smoke rings and valve trains but IME are not as hard on the drive parts. Find a happy medium talking to a builder. IMO you'd do best running with them from the pocket and showing your back fender once you get her moving.

20 guys can dispute my statements, they're just my experience breaking stuff. Roll-on from 2500-5500 is the way I went his time. Time will tell.
That is some good advice. I do have some extra weight and then I add tools and extra crap that accumulates. The TW777 looks tempting but the Andrews 57H may be a better compromise. I'm looking at the bottom end port and polish jobs from Fuel Moto, Hillside, and Dragos since they seem to be the men on campus here who answers questions. I just want the most for what I'm doing and I know from working on cars that the heads are where it's at.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
1.900 headwork flowing 255+ @ 28"
S&S .570 cams
compression set at 10.25-1
this will be a VERY reliable build and make 105/120 out of a 103"
Thanks for the advice. What does the 28" part mean? I get the cfm...I think.
 

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I have a 2011 RGU with Big Sucker intake and Rhinehart 2 into one tuned with Power Commander 4. What is the best bang for the buck? Can 100/120 be achieved with reliability or is this too much? I like to ride long distance and have fun in the twisties but hate it when my club brothers smoke me off the line. What is a good compromise. I'd like to do my head work the same time I put a cam in and I'd like them to match. A previous post showed me looking at Dave Mackies stuff but it doesn't look like a lot of guys know anything about him.

As I alway said the head work doesn't make that much difference but if you want to get the most out of your engine that you can then head work helps.
Fuel Moto just posted their new dyno sheet section on their website so you can get an idea of what you can achieve out of a 103 engine and 100/120 just isn't going to happen out of a 103 and it is going the be hard to get that out of a 107 too.
A 103 with TW 777 cams and stock heads will give you 100 HP and 113 lb ft of torque.
A 103 with TW 777 cams and Fuel Moto level B heads will give you 110 HP and 117 lb ft of torque.
A 107 with TW 777 cams and stock heads will give you 97 HP and 116 lb ft of torque .
A 107 with TW 777 cams and Fuel Moto level B heads will give you 108 HP and 119 lb ft of torque.
There are a lot more dyno sheets that you can look at but in general as you can see the heads were only increasing the torque by 3 to 4 lb ft and for the cost there isn't a lot of bang for the buck. The level B heads do show a significant HP increase but that only gives you bragging rights because torque is what gets you down the road.
Bumping the compression up to 10.25 to 10.50 will help and a good cam will give you more bang for the buck and still leave you with some money in your pocket.
If you really want to increase the torque and pass your club brothers then a 120 or 124 or larger engine is your real answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
124 is in the distant future. I want to run my stock cylinders out still which means I have at least one rebuild on them. Emptying my bags and going on a diet/exercise regimen probably won't hurt either. lol. Thanks for the input.
 

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If you plan on a bigger engine in the future then leaving the bike as it is and saving the money for the bigger power plant would be a good choice.
If you just want a little more get up and go then a cam upgrade will give you that without breaking the bank.
 

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Many different options here, really just depends on how much $$ your willing to spend. Research is key to your build. Take into account the fact that your riding the FLTRU, your weight, combined with your gear and whatever essentials you carry and the RPM range that you ride in most of the time. Don't worry if your bike doesn't leave the line as quick as your brothers, just as long as you can keep up or at least stay within a reasonable distance. Plenty of reputable builders here to help you achieve the power you are looking for. Ride on.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Many different options here, really just depends on how much $$ your willing to spend. Research is key to your build. Take into account the fact that your riding the FLTRU, your weight, combined with your gear and whatever essentials you carry and the RPM range that you ride in most of the time. Don't worry if your bike doesn't leave the line as quick as your brothers, just as long as you can keep up or at least stay within a reasonable distance. Plenty of reputable builders here to help you achieve the power you are looking for. Ride on.
Weight is a big issue. I weigh as much as some people who ride 2 up. lol. I can keep up stock. It just bugged the crap out of me watching my bud chirp his rear tire in every gear he hit on his... Yamaha cruiser. I don't drag race regularly. It's usually just to work and back and a long weekend now and then when I'm lucky. Thanks for your reply.
 

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ironmike,why do you keep chiming on riders with headwork questions? you've stated a million times you don't think headwork does squat,the FM dyno site is like scripture to you
Yes I do have a clue on what head work will do to bike for performance. I refer to FM web site because it has a good selection of dyno charts and and it easy to access for forum members, of course there are tons of other dyno sheets from other sources that are available and all it takes is some searching.
No matter what head work on a 103 is going to produce about same results no matter what source you get the dyno sheets from.
Also I am not against head work if you want to get all that you can out of a engine and you want to spend the money.
I mention this to forum members so they are informed about what to expect from the money they spend and what to expect from the performance build.
There is a lot of people that drink the performance KOOL AID and spend a lot of money (I been there and done it) and of course that is their choice but I like to inform them that they can still have a good running dependable bike and they don't need to spend a lot of money if they choose.
The bottom line is that you have the freedom to express your opinion and recommend head work and I have the freedom to express my opinion and not recommend head work and try to save the members a few buck$, the only difference is I suggest that they look at the documentation and decide for themselves.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
I'm researching this so hard my head hurts. 3 cams. 2 are similar and one is totally different.
S&S 570 and the Andrews 57 are similar. I had these recommended with reworked heads with 1.900 intake valves

And the S&S MR103 paired with S&S superstock heads with 89cc chambers. I am concerned about getting the CR too high at the altitude I live. I'd like to get it to around 10.1 and be happy.

Out of all of these cams I have actually heard about the 57H and the MR103. The 570 is a new one to me. I have checked S&S's site and it seems they have been making it for a long time.

The 570 has .570 valve lift with 240/255 duration
The 57H has .560 lift with 236/240 duration
The MR103 has .585 lift with 226/252 duration

I live at high altitude and don't usually push my motor past 4k rpm in daily riding. I realize this will probably change depending on the cam I run. I usually cruise at 3000 rpm on the highway. I'd like to be able to get on it and pass at that point. 90mph is about the fastest I ever get up to but have pegged it at 105 once or twice. I usually like being around 80-85 mph if LE is not an issue. I guess I'd like a cam that gets up and moves from wherever I'm cruising and I've heard the TW555 is good for that mission.

TW555 .555 lift with 242/242 duration
may as well put the 222 up for comparison too
TW222 .555 with 222/222 duration

Looking at the numbers it would seem the shorter duration on the intake side brings the torque at lower rpms wheras longer duration brings it higher. I'm not sure what it does on the exhaust side other than give it longer or shorter time to get the gasses out of course.

So what cam do you think would work better with headwork? What will get this heavy bike with a heavy guy and heavy tools moving through high mountain passes with a smile. I know I'm overthinking and obsessing on this but it's all good until the money starts to flow.

Take care and thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
...and then Dragos gets all interesting with his 580 cam where instead of changing duration like other cams he changes the lift for the intake and exhaust
Dragos 580 .578/.568 lift and 243/243 durration
 

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im not going to type out a small novel,but your wrong.if your looking for under 100hp & around 105 #`s of tq out of a 103",go with stock heads (sure you can get 100 or 105 if you throw TONS of compression at it).really don't care what fuel moto charts say,after having a 250 dyno for many years,i know what it takes to make power,on a mild or aggressive build.
one word,good headwork matched to the rest of your build,ask drago,he seems to the performance god on this forum,he`ll tell you the same as im telling you
Since you are the owner of Vee Twin Racing I can understand why you recommend head work because you are trying to drum up some business.
I still think it is best for a person to study the results of build combinations before they spend their money and since there are so many dyno sheets out there that can be accessed there is no reason for a person not to research before spending their money on any performance part.
Sorry that this post is being hijacked enough said have a nice day :wink:
 

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After doing this work for 30 years now, you are wrong ironmark.
Correct cylinder head work has much more worth than you realize.
NOT to "durm up business" either.
We are swamped all the time.
Koolaid?.........no koolaid here, just solid in-house(I know Kirby does his own heads, in house, as we do..........others?......DO NOT!!)work, one after the next.
We just built another 98"/S&S .585/our Stage III Super-Tour Heads for another shop, CFO Cyles in Meridith, NH, for example.
119.7 hp sae @ D.A.S. Performance, Drakett, Mass......and they RAN OUT OF INJECTOR.
You ARE NOT, going to come REMOTELY close to that, with an OEM, untouched, cylinder head.
Scott
 

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I'm researching this so hard my head hurts. 3 cams. 2 are similar and one is totally different.
S&S 570 and the Andrews 57 are similar. I had these recommended with reworked heads with 1.900 intake valves

And the S&S MR103 paired with S&S superstock heads with 89cc chambers. I am concerned about getting the CR too high at the altitude I live. I'd like to get it to around 10.1 and be happy.

Out of all of these cams I have actually heard about the 57H and the MR103. The 570 is a new one to me. I have checked S&S's site and it seems they have been making it for a long time.

The 570 has .570 valve lift with 240/255 duration
The 57H has .560 lift with 236/240 duration
The MR103 has .585 lift with 226/252 duration

I live at high altitude and don't usually push my motor past 4k rpm in daily riding. I realize this will probably change depending on the cam I run. I usually cruise at 3000 rpm on the highway. I'd like to be able to get on it and pass at that point. 90mph is about the fastest I ever get up to but have pegged it at 105 once or twice. I usually like being around 80-85 mph if LE is not an issue. I guess I'd like a cam that gets up and moves from wherever I'm cruising and I've heard the TW555 is good for that mission.

TW555 .555 lift with 242/242 duration
may as well put the 222 up for comparison too
TW222 .555 with 222/222 duration

Looking at the numbers it would seem the shorter duration on the intake side brings the torque at lower rpms wheras longer duration brings it higher. I'm not sure what it does on the exhaust side other than give it longer or shorter time to get the gasses out of course.

So what cam do you think would work better with headwork? What will get this heavy bike with a heavy guy and heavy tools moving through high mountain passes with a smile. I know I'm overthinking and obsessing on this but it's all good until the money starts to flow.

Take care and thanks.
We use that 57 quite often, in 103" and 107" combos with our Stage II Heads.
Always a home run.
Scott
 

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Ironmark, nothing wrong with having an opinion, but fact's always trump opinions. In another thread I suggested you read what Dennish, Mondello, and others say about porting. Myself I don't own a shop but have been building and riding Harleys for 40+ years. Iv'e seen first hand the difference good heads make. Even on mild builds, fuel efficiency, throttle response, felt heat, were all improved upon with ported heads.
 

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Ironmark, nothing wrong with having an opinion, but fact's always trump opinions. In another thread I suggested you read what Dennish, Mondello, and others say about porting. Myself I don't own a shop but have been building and riding Harleys for 40+ years. Iv'e seen first hand the difference good heads make. Even on mild builds, fuel efficiency, throttle response, felt heat, were all improved upon with ported heads.
You are dead on. Efficiency only makes everything else more better as they say!
 
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