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SE Race Tuner, TTS MasterTune, Power Vision, Thundermax all do ignition timing, not sure about the Power Commander units. Dwell adjustment, or point gap for us non-GM guys, went away with points ignitions.
 

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'You didn't provide any info on your bike SO. If you have a older bike that has points then you may need to be concerned about Dwell and the newer EFI tuner won't help you at all. If you have a newer bike then the only tuner that I know of that you can adjust the timing on a base map is the Thunder Max.
 

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'You didn't provide any info on your bike SO. If you have a older bike that has points then you may need to be concerned about Dwell and the newer EFI tuner won't help you at all. If you have a newer bike then the only tuner that I know of that you can adjust the timing on a base map is the Thunder Max.
His signature says 2013 Fltrx. T max will work for you sir.
 

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His signature says 2013 Fltrx. T max will work for you sir.
Thanks for pointing that out I didn't notice it. Well on a 2013 you never have a advance/dwell issue what you need is good tuner and then the choice of tuners will depend on your modifications. There are some tuners that are capable of handling mild build and these tuners are available at a lower cost then there are top of the line tuners that have more capabilities but are more expensive. You need to decide what mods you are going to put on the bike and what tuner will meet your needs.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for pointing that out I didn't notice it. Well on a 2013 you never have a advance/dwell issue what you need is good tuner and then the choice of tuners will depend on your modifications. There are some tuners that are capable of handling mild build and these tuners are available at a lower cost then there are top of the line tuners that have more capabilities but are more expensive. You need to decide what mods you are going to put on the bike and what tuner will meet your needs.
That's actually what I'm searching for ironmark. I would really like to find a table out there someplace that defines which tuners offer what features.

A simple "yes" or "no" cross reference comparison plus a "notes" column that offers info like tolerances and/or "automated" would be great.

So far, I can't even find that type of info on vendors or manufacturers websites. It's like shooting in the dark. Even here on the forum, you guys who do know use terms and acronyms I'm not familiar with. Need some tutoring too.

I'm certain that even the most inexpensive setup is expected to alter A/F ratio, even the XiED. However, if I ever go to just some cams, I'll then want to at least control timing advance too... maybe other stuff I simply don't know about yet?

BTW, yep, I'm a true ol'phart. Heavy into racing back in the old days, REAL heavy. Stopped that back in the mid 80s though.

Unfortunately, old memories are the only memories I have these days :( and I included dwell out of habit :eek:.

At least I didn't include needle position, needle taper rate, slide angle, or jet size :D.
 

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If you plan on doing your own work then you would most likely want a auto tuner such as a Thundermax or a Power Vision with the auto tune feature. A HD SERT (Screaming Eagle Race Tuner) works well but you would need to do a dyno tune after doing mods. The Auto tuners will allow you to do your own mods and then enter a base map and then the tuner will automatically adjust the AFR by taking readings from the o2 sensors and no dyno tune is needed. I use the Thundermax auto tuner and with the Thundermax you can adjust the timing to your base map if you need to. The Thundermax comes with auto tune and replaces the bikes ECM the Power Vision comes as a separate unit that works with the stock o2 sensors and the stock ECM or you can get the auto tune feature for the Power Vision which would include the o2 sensors. Either way you go the price for a auto tuner will be about the same and I got my best price on the Thundermax from Frank at Dragos Bike Works.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks again ironmark but in fact, I've already narrowed it down to a PV because I do like to tweak things myself and if I ever do decide to go to auto tune, then I can add that module later with a PV. That said, your input and conversation is what keeps helping me better define what I'm actually looking for though... data sheet comparisons.

I would expect that any high-quality tuner offers timing advance and A/F ratio control but there may well be other features too (or maybe not?). Perhaps a cold-engine enrichment tweak? A throttle response tweak for those of us that now have electronic throttle control. Maybe a Rev limiter readjustment? Some sort of "accelerator pump" feature with an associated tweak? Speedo recalibration? These sorts of features are what I want to know about so that I can add them into my final decision.

The problem... there's not even an overall comparative list of general features available with each specific tuner! At least I can't find one out there anywhere. Therefore, I'm still shooting in the dark and a PV seems (sort of) like the best guess for me.

In addition though, I would also like to know more about how an individual tuner implements it's available features. What are the update rates for the specific features that each individual tuner may (or may not) provide? Those update rates need to be expressed in appropriate terms too (i.e. Hz, KHz, RPM increments, etc.)? Tolerances? Maybe I'm just too much of a retired engineer but I truly do believe those data are important for comparison as well and cannot find that info anywhere either (no kidding :eek: ;)). If I could get my hands on a sample of each representative tuner, I could do an investigation and even actual measurements myself but that's sure not on the horizon.

In the end, I might just go with XiED or Jamie's "cheapie" A/F ratio gizmo for now in hopes that someday, tuner manufacturers will release more info to consumers beforehand.
 

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The Thundermax updates your AFR every 256rpm and of course it updates each cylinder separately, you can also advance or retard your timing and add or subtract up to 10% of fuel, you can set your idle where ever you like and set rev limit as well, the T-max will also eliminate your top end cruise limit so you can set your cruise at any speed. You have to remember the PV only works in conjunction with the stock ECM and overwrites the stock ECM settings and is not a true auto tuner the T-max is a true auto tuner and completely replaces the stock ECM so you can make all the adjustments that a dyno tune can. I only use the T-Max so if you want more answers to your questions you may want to call someone that knows more about tuners, try calling Frank at Dragos bike works he has more knowledge about tuners and the T-Max is the tuner he recommends over any other tuner.
 
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