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Well, I just finished my 98 CI upgrade on my 01 FLTR and I am really happy with it and I do think that with this bike that I am going to stay put and not increase the CI displacement. However, with that being said, I do need to have a new project. I have been thinking of this for a long time that I would like to build a 113" or 120" Twin cam engine. I know that there are a lot of people that have done this so I thought that this forum would be the only spot really to get complete information. I am really looking forward to this thread as I am sure that there are just endless possibilities that one can choose from.

I am going to start the thread by saying that I am a person that likes to build things for practical purposes, meaning that I am not a straight line rider by any stretch of the imagination but I require that my bike has the power that it needs for all situations. My intentions for this engine as of now is to build it, then sell it.

This engine will be an A engine and I am looking for it to perform at 3000 rpm and up. I know that people will use the cliche, "there is no replacement for displacement," but I do not subscribe to that line of thinking all of the time. What displacement do you think is the most reliable? Why? I am looking for responses that exhibit real world experience. Remember, 120 CI is the max that I want. What cam shaft then would you recommend?

Thanks in advance to all who participate and lets have fun spending virtual money. Please give legitimate reasons as to why you are making the suggestion. Thanks. Lets have some fun but serious at the same time.
 
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Do you have a budget in mind ?

I like the 4.5 inch stroke 117" or 120" engines

4.06 or 4.125 bore

Reason why is I believe it is the best combination for heavier bikes for a balance between horsepower and torque.

You can also with the right combination of parts build a stock height engine that has no problems with intake manifold fitting,exhaust bolting up as it should or any other associated nonsense.

Heads

With the 117 you could use ported factory 99 or 06 castings,the 120 you might want to step up to a mildly ported CVO 110 head.

Would also suggest you have the heads worked over by a professional.

Guys like John Sachs,Jim Lebo and WFO Larry,do top notch work.

Camshaft ? Have a camshaft ground specifically for the engine you choose to build
 

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Well, I just finished my 98 CI upgrade on my 01 FLTR and I am really happy with it and I do think that with this bike that I am going to stay put and not increase the CI displacement. However, with that being said, I do need to have a new project. I have been thinking of this for a long time that I would like to build a 113" or 120" Twin cam engine. I know that there are a lot of people that have done this so I thought that this forum would be the only spot really to get complete information. I am really looking forward to this thread as I am sure that there are just endless possibilities that one can choose from.

I am going to start the thread by saying that I am a person that likes to build things for practical purposes, meaning that I am not a straight line rider by any stretch of the imagination but I require that my bike has the power that it needs for all situations. My intentions for this engine as of now is to build it, then sell it.

This engine will be an A engine and I am looking for it to perform at 3000 rpm and up. I know that people will use the cliche, "there is no replacement for displacement," but I do not subscribe to that line of thinking all of the time. What displacement do you think is the most reliable? Why? I am looking for responses that exhibit real world experience. Remember, 120 CI is the max that I want. What cam shaft then would you recommend?

Thanks in advance to all who participate and lets have fun spending virtual money. Please give legitimate reasons as to why you are making the suggestion. Thanks. Lets have some fun but serious at the same time.
Bob Lobenburg, the tuner for RC Cycles Hayward, California recently tuned a 117"er of ours, and in spite of the small diameter primary tubes on the Thunderheader, it still ripped 129/137 in touring form.
Oznog on the HTT, runs one of our 120's that showed 141/144, in more hot-rod form, and Splitting Lanes on the HTT, has also 40,000 miles on his 117"er, with a tiny Wood 6 cam,(that we built the 117" around, as he already had it) and popped 119/136, tune by Bruce @ Horsepower Express, in the San Fran Bay area.
Too many others to mention, that have as much power and miles on them.
4 3/8" stroke, 4 1/8" hole, with an off-shelf cam and a set of heads that roll off the needed air, with the proper t/body and pipe, tuned. That straightforward, that simple.
No need to re-invent the wheel, and no rocks will be turned over, finding something new, 'cause it just ain't there.
It's already been done......
Scott
 
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if you ever go bigger,do a 124".we do alot of them & get anywhere from 130-145 depending on degree of build,ROCK solid,dependable combination
 
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Bob Lobenburg, the tuner for RC Cycles Hayward, California recently tuned a 117"er of ours, and in spite of the small diameter primary tubes on the Thunderheader, it still ripped 129/137 in touring form.
Oznog on the HTT, runs one of our 120's that showed 141/144, in more hot-rod form, and Splitting Lanes on the HTT, has also 40,000 miles on his 117"er, with a tiny Wood 6 cam,(that we built the 117" around, as he already had it) and popped 119/136, tune by Bruce @ Horsepower Express, in the San Fran Bay area.
Too many others to mention, that have as much power and miles on them.
4 3/8" stroke, 4 1/8" hole, with an off-shelf cam and a set of heads that roll off the needed air, with the proper t/body and pipe, tuned. That straightforward, that simple.
No need to re-invent the wheel, and no rocks will be turned over, finding something new, 'cause it just ain't there.
It's already been done......
Scott
This kind of thinking has been and will continue to be a recipe for mediocrity.

As usual no help whatsoever just another advertisement .

And no dyno sheets.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Do you have a budget in mind ?

I like the 4.5 inch stroke 117" or 120" engines

4.06 or 4.125 bore

Reason why is I believe it is the best combination for heavier bikes for a balance between horsepower and torque.

You can also with the right combination of parts build a stock height engine that has no problems with intake manifold fitting,exhaust bolting up as it should or any other associated nonsense.

Heads

With the 117 you could use ported factory 99 or 06 castings,the 120 you might want to step up to a mildly ported CVO 110 head.

Would also suggest you have the heads worked over by a professional.

Guys like John Sachs,Jim Lebo and WFO Larry,do top notch work.

Camshaft ? Have a camshaft ground specifically for the engine you choose to build
Budget? Well I guess I would have to say that the budget would be whatever it takes to get it right. I am with you on this one, I have been playing around a little and it seems that I would like to have the 117" over anything else. I also agree that I would probably would like to have a camshaft specifically made as well. Now the heads are a different story. I was thinking of the Hurricane heads. Just a thought at the moment. I think that those would be a lot closer to what the 99-06 castings would be and for about the same money. LOL, I hear Mr. Sachs is kind of a dink....lol.

Now here are some real questions. I have heard so many builders say that HD's cases are weak and we all know what is happening with the crankshafts (pressed), which is truly the better way to go? HD cases or S&S? I am leaning towards the S&S cases but I am worried that I won't be able to badge the cam cover using HD stuff or is this just not true? I have been looking been looking around and I do think that I would go with DarkHorse for the crankshaft. I have also been looking around and am thinking that I would go with the Fueling cam plate and pump, S&S gear drives, and the
Fueling oil pump.

More on the cam. It was suggested that I use the Reaper 594 but I think that that cam is a little too high in the rpm's for me as far as the intake event is concerned. I would like to see one with the same lift and other events but with the IVC more around 48-50. What are you thoughts?
 
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Again,camshaft should be tailored to the combination...until you have airflow numbers from the heads and have decided what compression you wanna run no point in even looking at one.

As far as Sachs goes,one smart guy and a craftsman....something the majority of the HD wanna be porters/builders are not.

Same for Libo and WFO Larry

Crank....darkhorse can swap you out a set of H beams,new pin ,pro plug and balance and no worries

A great exhaust system and tune is also needed for a 117-120+ build,you can look no further than Drago's bike works.

Frank,a vendor on this forum makes a great pipe for the build you are suggesting and he can tune with the best of em.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Again,camshaft should be tailored to the combination...until you have airflow numbers from the heads and have decided what compression you wanna run no point in even looking at one.

As far as Sachs goes,one smart guy and a craftsman....something the majority of the HD wanna be porters/builders are not.

Same for Libo and WFO Larry

Crank....darkhorse can swap you out a set of H beams,new pin ,pro plug and balance and no worries

A great exhaust system and tune is also needed for a 117-120+ build,you can look no further than Drago's bike works.

Frank,a vendor on this forum makes a great pipe for the build you are suggesting and he can tune with the best of em.
As I had said, I like compression so I would be running at about 9.5-9.8 corrected. OF course the heads will have to flow in order to support, that is just a common knowledge thing John. :D. I am not talking about buying an SE crank and then having Hoban redo it, I am talking about buying one of their cranks, period. You really didn't answer about the cases, which do you suggest? the HD case or the S&S case? As far as Drago's goes, I have spoken with Frank many times and am aware of his pipes and the quality that they represent. ;)
 

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H-D T/C crankcases will handle all the "street" power you will throw at them.
Bored too many to recall, and no issues.
For instance, 124" with a Pro-Charger...........no issues.:)
Scott
 

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I would go with the HD cases over the S&S, have to many holes with time serts in them.

Any particular reason you chose to stop at 120 over say 124" S&S?

Personally had over 50k miles on mine and decided to refresh it just because it was 5 years old and wanted to give it a once through.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would go with the HD cases over the S&S, have to many holes with time serts in them.

Any particular reason you chose to stop at 120 over say 124" S&S?

Personally had over 50k miles on mine and decided to refresh it just because it was 5 years old and wanted to give it a once through.
Good, I hoping that I would hear a vote for the HD cases over the S&S's. No, there is no real reason as to why I am stopping at 120" other than the fact there are just too many 124ers around. I tend to go a rout that is lest common for my demographic. I do not want to buy a crate engine, I want to build it from the ground up, I want that control.

Ok, so I have done a little more looking around and I have decided that I would rather have a Hoban crank and I would use their rods as well. I am not into these pressed cranks that HD gives us, I would rather spend the money right away. Thoughts?

I have been thinking about a box set of heads for this engine, I am leaning towards the Hurricane heads because of valve sie, but I must admit that I am not 100% positive what options that I have available to me. Suggestions on the heads? Why do you suggest those over others???
 

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S&S only offers their proprietary engine cases for the earlier T/C engines due to a manufacturing infringement presented to them from the Moco.
They are however waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger than the H-D Mercury-Marine castings, as they are manufactured from 356-T6 aluminum. Tough stuff.
Scott
 

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Good, I hoping that I would hear a vote for the HD cases over the S&S's. No, there is no real reason as to why I am stopping at 120" other than the fact there are just too many 124ers around. I tend to go a rout that is lest common for my demographic. I do not want to buy a crate engine, I want to build it from the ground up, I want that control.

Ok, so I have done a little more looking around and I have decided that I would rather have a Hoban crank and I would use their rods as well. I am not into these pressed cranks that HD gives us, I would rather spend the money right away. Thoughts?

I have been thinking about a box set of heads for this engine, I am leaning towards the Hurricane heads because of valve sie, but I must admit that I am not 100% positive what options that I have available to me. Suggestions on the heads? Why do you suggest those over others???
If you want different, build a twincam engine up with whatever crank you want and make it a 117/120/124 whatever. Get S&S cylinders, pistons, pushrods and their new lifters and B2 heads, but get the 2 bolt form of them not the 4 bolt.

Exhaust pipe is the only tricky part if you want to go 2 into 1 as it will take custom ends to make it fit at the head due to the hight difference. Thus far true duals seem to work just fine.

Now you are off the beaten path in your demographic and have heads that flow good numbers if memory serves me slightly higher than the Hurricanes. 346 vs 343 lol.

Good luck with the build.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If you want different, build a twincam engine up with whatever crank you want and make it a 117/120/124 whatever. Get S&S cylinders, pistons, pushrods and their new lifters and B2 heads, but get the 2 bolt form of them not the 4 bolt.

Exhaust pipe is the only tricky part if you want to go 2 into 1 as it will take custom ends to make it fit at the head due to the hight difference. Thus far true duals seem to work just fine.

Now you are off the beaten path in your demographic and have heads that flow good numbers if memory serves me slightly higher than the Hurricanes. 346 vs 343 lol.

Good luck with the build.
It will be a little bit before I do this build. I am trying to get a bunch of ideas so I don't rush it. For some reason I am not much of an S&S fan. I am not saying that they are not good or anything like that. I will check out their stuff though, thanks for the heads up. I love true duals, I have them on my Road Glide and I just got done with a 98" build that produced over 100 hp and 114 ft lbs of torque. No one will ever convince now that duals suck.

I want to be clear, you have the Hurricane heads or the S&S B2 heads? Why the 2 bolt and not the 4 bolt?
 
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we`ve done tons of 124`s with stock cases,but S&S products are the best in the industry,hands down
 

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It will be a little bit before I do this build. I am trying to get a bunch of ideas so I don't rush it. For some reason I am not much of an S&S fan. I am not saying that they are not good or anything like that. I will check out their stuff though, thanks for the heads up. I love true duals, I have them on my Road Glide and I just got done with a 98" build that produced over 100 hp and 114 ft lbs of torque. No one will ever convince now that duals suck.

I want to be clear, you have the Hurricane heads or the S&S B2 heads? Why the 2 bolt and not the 4 bolt?
The 2 bolt offers you more suitability without having to do custom exhaust ends for the exhaust bolt flanges, so no need to cut / fabricate / reweld with the true duals. I have a set of B2 heads. For now i am running Rineharts as i found out the hard way that the 2 into 1 didnt just bolt on. I havent decided yet after finding out that the 2 into 1 needs fabrication to work whether i will spend the time or just leave the stepped rineharts on and say good enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The 2 bolt offers you more suitability without having to do custom exhaust ends for the exhaust bolt flanges, so no need to cut / fabricate / reweld with the true duals. I have a set of B2 heads. For now i am running Rineharts as i found out the hard way that the 2 into 1 didnt just bolt on. I havent decided yet after finding out that the 2 into 1 needs fabrication to work whether i will spend the time or just leave the stepped rineharts on and say good enough.
I took a look at those B2 heads and man does S&S really like their stuff. I think that I am going to have to pass on them based just on price alone. Not only that I did like that the B2's are .230" over stock height. they sound like they are just a pain in the ass. JMO.
 
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