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Discussion Starter #1
So I wrecked my scoot. I'm working on getting her back together. As usual I've ran into paint troubles. My friend owes me money. His friend paints. I buy vivid black and activator from PcPain. The color is perfect. The guy calls my friend and says I gave him single stage paint but the parts I gave him with pin stripes were cleared when he sanded them off. He says "what do you want me to do, wait for you to get me clear or stick with single stage". I talk to the guy who painted my bike parts for me before with good results and he said "yeah it's single stage but you should clear it or it won't last" and when asked what kind of clear he says "regular clear...ppg something like that will work". The paint is layed on and Color sanded to perfection in my eye. No peel. Loving it. Overcast where I pick them up 30 miles home it's sunny. I pull them from the car and they're hazy. Look like chit.

Another friend that l trade service work on his scoot for his cleaning and buffing mine used the wrong stuff one time and it looked great when I picked it up but then same thing, when the sun came out it looked like someone sanded my whole bike. Took it back and he said he used the wrong compound for my paint. Had it looking spectacular in a couple hours. So I took him a lid yesterday and today calls me over and says there's nothing he can do. He believes it's the wrong clear for that paint or something like that. Suggested having the clear wet sanded off and re-cleared. He's not a painter by the way.

I'm about at the end of my rope with this vivid black. I'm tempted to save some money and have the whole sled painted pearl black. I really like vivid though. Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated. Suggestions on local guys or shops that might be able to help where you've had good past experiences with that a aren't rapists...or worse SLOW rapists. Even just some moral support might be helpful. :frown: Photobucket seems to be down right now. I'll post up some pics when photobucket is back up and running. Unless someone here would let me text them 3 pics and upload them for me.
 

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So I wrecked my scoot. I'm working on getting her back together. As usual I've ran into paint troubles. My friend owes me money. His friend paints. I buy vivid black and activator from PcPain. The color is perfect. The guy calls my friend and says I gave him single stage paint but the parts I gave him with pin stripes were cleared when he sanded them off. He says "what do you want me to do, wait for you to get me clear or stick with single stage". I talk to the guy who painted my bike parts for me before with good results and he said "yeah it's single stage but you should clear it or it won't last" and when asked what kind of clear he says "regular clear...ppg something like that will work". The paint is layed on and Color sanded to perfection in my eye. No peel. Loving it. Overcast where I pick them up 30 miles home it's sunny. I pull them from the car and they're hazy. Look like chit.

Another friend that l trade service work on his scoot for his cleaning and buffing mine used the wrong stuff one time and it looked great when I picked it up but then same thing, when the sun came out it looked like someone sanded my whole bike. Took it back and he said he used the wrong compound for my paint. Had it looking spectacular in a couple hours. So I took him a lid yesterday and today calls me over and says there's nothing he can do. He believes it's the wrong clear for that paint or something like that. Suggested having the clear wet sanded off and re-cleared. He's not a painter by the way.

I'm about at the end of my rope with this vivid black. I'm tempted to save some money and have the whole sled painted pearl black. I really like vivid though. Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated. Suggestions on local guys or shops that might be able to help where you've had good past experiences with that a aren't rapists...or worse SLOW rapists. Even just some moral support might be helpful. :frown: Photobucket seems to be down right now. I'll post up some pics when photobucket is back up and running. Unless someone here would let me text them 3 pics and upload them for me.
It's been awhile since I been in automotive painting, but single stage paint isn't supposed to be cleared. That's why it's called single stage. I've done plenty of single stage paint jobs that last just as long as base/ clear.
The paint probably wasn't completely cured when the clear was laid on. You might want to try to sun bake it for a couple days and re-buff the finish back out afterwards.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It's been awhile since I been in automotive painting, but single stage paint isn't supposed to be cleared. That's why it's called single stage. I've done plenty of single stage paint jobs that last just as long as base/ clear.
The paint probably wasn't completely cured when the clear was laid on. You might want to try to sun bake it for a couple days and re-buff the finish back out afterwards.
Thanks for the response Gary. My question to you would be then if it's not supposed to be cleared then why was the factory vivid black cleared? This is all confusing to me as I know next to nothing about paint.
 

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Wrapped a couple pieces in bubble wrap to protect them on the drive home. It seems nearly anything that touches it for long will leave an imprint that doesn't wipe away. Even after my friend worked on a lid he said when he'd touch it with a finger it would leave what he called a void and wouldn't wipe away.

 

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The factory paint is a base coat/clear coat system, which means the color is the base coat, and it needs a compatible clear coat sprayed over the top of it. Even the denim paint is a base coat/clear coat system.
The best way I can describe a single stage paint is a rattle can in gloss black, which will very rarely look like a base coat/ clear coat paint job. Prep is everything in a paint job. If a single stage paint was used on your parts, then it probably wasn't made to accept a clear coat over the top of it, and it might be having some type of chemical reaction. Either way, I wouldn't be happy with the results you ended up with.
Lil Chief
 

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The painter I used to paint my rear package let it dry for 7 days before he buffed.
 

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Thanks for the response Gary. My question to you would be then if it's not supposed to be cleared then why was the factory vivid black cleared? This is all confusing to me as I know next to nothing about paint.
You can clear over single stage paint if it's fully cured , using the correct clear. The single stage paint has the protective chemicals in it to block out harmful things such as UV rays , water, and dirt. The base color does Not. It needs the clear for protection.
Like Chief said, the MOCO probably uses base/ clear system on the bikes.
Try the Sun dry , I mentioned before anything else.
 

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I would say, let dry for several more days, then wet sand with 3000 grit. Clean it up then buff with a good 3m made for black buffing compound with a foam pad on a buffing wheel. If it can be fixed, this should do the trick. Once this is completed look at the finish. If no haze then put a good protective wax on it and enjoy.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The factory paint is a base coat/clear coat system, which means the color is the base coat, and it needs a compatible clear coat sprayed over the top of it. Even the denim paint is a base coat/clear coat system.
The best way I can describe a single stage paint is a rattle can in gloss black, which will very rarely look like a base coat/ clear coat paint job. Prep is everything in a paint job. If a single stage paint was used on your parts, then it probably wasn't made to accept a clear coat over the top of it, and it might be having some type of chemical reaction. Either way, I wouldn't be happy with the results you ended up with.
Lil Chief
Have to wonder the. Why HD dealers are selling single stage paint if Milwaukee is using base/clear. No sir I am not happy with the results and there's no way something looking like that will end up on my bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You can clear over single stage paint if it's fully cured , using the correct clear. The single stage paint has the protective chemicals in it to block out harmful things such as UV rays , water, and dirt. The base color does Not. It needs the clear for protection.
Like Chief said, the MOCO probably uses base/ clear system on the bikes.
Try the Sun dry , I mentioned before anything else.
I'd love to let it sun dry...if I had any. We don't have much of anything but rain around these parts this time of year.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I would say, let dry for several more days, then wet sand with 3000 grit. Clean it up then buff with a good 3m made for black buffing compound with a foam pad on a buffing wheel. If it can be fixed, this should do the trick. Once this is completed look at the finish. If no haze then put a good protective wax on it and enjoy.
I'll pass that suggestion on to my friend and maybe get him the products to use. I doubt he's going to want to do any sanding for me. I'm thinking at this point it's better left to a paint professional if I can find one I can trust.
 

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All good stuff so far, most likely salvageable with a little patience.

I am guessing not painted in a booth (no bake cycle). We have no ideas how many coats of clear or what was chemicals or clears were sprayed, all things that may contribute to your condition.

The bubble wrap impressions are typical of what might be seen "car cover" in a paint booth on paint that is dry to the touch but not all the solvents have evaporated from the paint. It usually will wet sand/buff out given dry time..

You have not mentioned solvent popping or blisters yet=a good thing. Sometimes seen if too much product, or sprayed too fast or product incompatability is an issue.

3 things help uerethane paint/clear dry:
Catalyst/hardner
Temperature -maybe 60 degrees and above
Time-even in a booth after a bake cycle 1-2 days. Without at least a 1 or 2 weeks-maybe more given the question marks on products used
All the above are dependent on the products used. READ THE CAN

Give it some good dry time, allow all the solvents to come out. Wet sand/buff and polish as others have mentioned. I would hold off on waxing quite a while, silicone wax's tend to act like a shell and hold solvents in.

Deffinetly have it sanded and buffed by someone who know what their doing.

If down the road you have to repaint, a reputable body shop or professional painter for sure.

Good luck, keep us in the loop.
 

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I'm no professional but, I have done my fair share of costume painting as a hobbiest. That being said, take my comments for what they're worth. Although not necessary, clear coating over a single stage paint system shouldn't be a problem if properly prepped. Unlike a two stage system, the color in the single stage system needs some curing time before the clear is applied. Also, unlike a two stage system, the color needs to be wet sanded before being top coated with clear, or the clear may not bit into the surface of the color and some lifting may occur. If the color being cleared over is black or a dark color the sand paper used to prep between coats needs to be vey fine or sanding scratch marks will appear when the clear is applied.

The blemishes that seem to be present in the pictures posted look to be a chemical reaction of some sort. To me this would indicate that the color may not have been properly cured, or more likely there was some foreign substance on the color surface (not properly cleaned) before the top coat of clear was applied. Ether way it needs to be determined at what level is the blemish before it can be remedied. If it is in the clear coat, a good color sanding and buff may take care of it. Or a wet sand and a second top coat of clear may be necessary. However, if the problem is in the color coat, the only remedy would be to sand the clear completely off, at least in the blemish areas, and then recoat with clear. At that point though, it would probably be easier, faster, and less likely to have continued issues, just by starting over and shoot on a new color over what's there and clear again.

Again, before knowing how to proceed, you need to know where the problem exists. Sometimes just wetting the surface will give some clues. If you wet the surface and you still see the blemish, most likely the problem is in or at the color, not the clear at which point I would just wet sand and repaint rather that waist time and money trying to fix it. Just my two cents for what it's worth.
 

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All good stuff so far, most likely salvageable with a little patience.

I am guessing not painted in a booth (no bake cycle). We have no ideas how many coats of clear or what was chemicals or clears were sprayed, all things that may contribute to your condition.

The bubble wrap impressions are typical of what might be seen "car cover" in a paint booth on paint that is dry to the touch but not all the solvents have evaporated from the paint. It usually will wet sand/buff out given dry time..

You have not mentioned solvent popping or blisters yet=a good thing. Sometimes seen if too much product, or sprayed too fast or product incompatability is an issue.

3 things help uerethane paint/clear dry:
Catalyst/hardner
Temperature -maybe 60 degrees and above
Time-even in a booth after a bake cycle 1-2 days. Without at least a 1 or 2 weeks-maybe more given the question marks on products used
All the above are dependent on the products used. READ THE CAN

Give it some good dry time, allow all the solvents to come out. Wet sand/buff and polish as others have mentioned. I would hold off on waxing quite a while, silicone wax's tend to act like a shell and hold solvents in.

Deffinetly have it sanded and buffed by someone who know what their doing.

If down the road you have to repaint, a reputable body shop or professional painter for sure.

Good luck, keep us in the loop.
Great explanation and advise++++
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks all. And thanks For the phone call Mat. I spoke to MadMat after I drove back out there. The painter now tells me he shot it in single stage, sanded and buffed it. I guess he didn't clear it after all. I can't give you time frames on curing or buffing and I understand the pictures don't show up very well on a computer screen. He's got the pieces back now and tells me he knows how to fix it. Unfortunately his idea for fixing it is to sand it reshoot it and clear it. It's a custom motor home shop. Cascade Custom Coach. I'm guessing they have a very large paint booth as they paint motor homes. I'm not sure he knows what he's doing but I'll know more tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I warn guys all the about not using the HD parts counter paints! They are trouble just waiting to happen.

The best and easiest way is with THE PPG, DBC base/clear system, and in Seattle you can still get the good solvent based stuff
My problem last time using the PPG 9850 paint code was getting the right alternate that matched my bike. Apparently there are 3-4 alternates? So I figured this was going to be easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
How are you making out with the 2nd paint job Whitey? How's the rebuild coming along?
He got backed up with his work and I told him I was in no hurry and to go ahead and get caught up. He paints custom coaches. I guess that's what you call a bus, a coach. Or are they still just a motorhome? Anyway. It's starting to look like a motorcycle again. Just waiting for those parts and a new fairing. There was a mixup and I received a new black fairing with a big red swoosh down the side. I have the worst luck with anything getting painted.
 
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