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Discussion Starter #1
OK.... I'll try to make this short....

New plugs.... just because....no oil or buildup but slightly on the white side near a tan color...

Canned map from FM for my PV and Target Tune for 120ST with Boss Boarzilla

running lean and getting spark knock on FRONT CYLINDER.. 3 times as many vs the rear.. and sometimes not at all on the rear.

This is all happening above 2800 rpms and 45Kpa and up pulling hills at above 75mph is the main scenario I see this.. not flat land cruising.

So... I increase fuel by 5% from 2800 and up across the table... smoothed it out.

Almost at .895 lambda in areas even lower in the higher ranges ( still getting 38mpg )

a little better, but not alot... spark retard is set to 6 degrees.... never touched it


I pull out 6 degrees of timing ( and smoothed)from the FRONT CYLINDER in the the same range as the fuel table mod... still have spark knock on the front, and now the REAR CYLINDER has spark knock is almost keeping up with the front!!!!

WTF!?!?!?!
 

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Go to the spark area of the tuning software and back some spark lead out of the front jug at the rpm where it pings.

Trial and error to do it with just a a but dyno. And that software is not my favorite, but it can be done. With what you have already invested in that motor, some dyno time might be in order.



You can also try moving one step at a time colder on the plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
THANKS...i have been messing with this for a while now... increasing fuel... took out 6 degrees of timing on the front, then the rear acts up and knocks... if I had a trusted dyno tech in my area that uses the PV.. I would be all over it

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Discussion Starter #4
I may have found a local tuner that will dyno for me... gotta call him

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Discussion Starter #6
On the dyno they can see spark knock right as it starts. And adjust the timing accordingly.
That's what I'm hoping for...

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Not really sure why this question isn't directed at FM directly.
If you have and had issues there, would like to know that. Have their tune as well.


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Discussion Starter #8
Not really sure why this question isn't directed at FM directly.
If you have and had issues there, would like to know that. Have their tune as well.


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Not sure why you think this should be directed at FM.... they have always been top notch in service.... never had issues.... why would you think that?

A canned map is not going to be 'perfect' for every bike in every geographic location... its a base to start from. I like to do things myself... learn as I go.... I don't like just dropping my scoot off... get it back and.... THERE! ITS FIXED.... I hate that... Im a hands-on type.
 

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Not sure why you think this should be directed at FM.... they have always been top notch in service.... never had issues.... why would you think that?

A canned map is not going to be 'perfect' for every bike in every geographic location... its a base to start from. I like to do things myself... learn as I go.... I don't like just dropping my scoot off... get it back and.... THERE! ITS FIXED.... I hate that... Im a hands-on type.
Sorry, Maybe I used the wrong wording in my statement. first of all, i wasn't being negative or derogatory.
Maybe I should have said "directed "to" FM. Meaning, give them a call. Bob or (can't remember the head dude's name right off). Either one could direct you right over the phone as to what to do.

Also, if needed, FM could have you record a run on your bike. You could then email them that recording. They could then take your map and make any necessary adjustments to it. Then send it back to you by email and you could copy that into your PV and then download into bike. a buddy of mine had to do that with the canned map they sent him with his PV. Solved some issues real quick for him.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Sorry, Maybe I used the wrong wording in my statement. first of all, i wasn't being negative or derogatory.
Maybe I should have said "directed "to" FM. Meaning, give them a call. Bob or (can't remember the head dude's name right off). Either one could direct you right over the phone as to what to do.

Also, if needed, FM could have you record a run on your bike. You could then email them that recording. They could then take your map and make any necessary adjustments to it. Then send it back to you by email and you could copy that into your PV and then download into bike. a buddy of mine had to do that with the canned map they sent him with his PV. Solved some issues real quick for him.
No need for apologies.... all good bro...

Very true that FM will help... I will do that for sure.

I like to wrap my head around the fundamentals and figure crap out on my own most of the time... hard-headed...lol

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Unfortunately, tuning is not something you want to "mess around with until you figure it out". Things go south very quickly in high compression engines with poor tunes. My recommendation is to have someone get the bike on a dyno where adjustments can be made immediately as they occur.

What kind of plugs are you running?

White plugs = lean condition. Give her more fuel.

Keep in mind this is speculation from EVERYONE.

Without a wide band 02, neither myself or anybody else can see what your AFR looks like throughout the power band...........that is really the info needed to accurately attack the multiple events you're dealing with.


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Discussion Starter #12
Unfortunately, tuning is not something you want to "mess around with until you figure it out". Things go south very quickly in high compression engines with poor tunes. My recommendation is to have someone get the bike on a dyno where adjustments can be made immediately as they occur.

What kind of plugs are you running?

White plugs = lean condition. Give her more fuel.

Keep in mind this is speculation from EVERYONE.

Without a wide band 02, neither myself or anybody else can see what your AFR looks like throughout the power band...........that is really the info needed to accurately attack the multiple events you're dealing with.


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Appreciate the feedback and advice...

A little history... I tried the short version...lol

Setup first:

120ST, Power Vision, Target Tune Wideband O2 module and D&D Boss Boarzilla exhaust.

Jamie at FM set up my TT and PV when purchased.

Stock plugs and wires... looked off white close to tan...no carbon or oil buildup...new stock plugs gapped at .038 and installed

Took canned FM map... added 5% fuel to mid and upper range... 45kpa and 2750rpm on up since this the only place it starts knocking and knocks under load of acceleration.. I can watch it.

No real change noticed with added fuel.. maybe not enough.. not sure..... but monitoring the knocks in that range under load... PV set for max retard of 6 degrees... still knocks.. mainly in the front cylinder and I can watch the timing getting pulled out under load on the PV from the front cylinder.

So.. I pulled out 5-6 degrees of timing in the same range and kept the added 5% fuel...

No real change to be honest... still have knocks...

( keep in mind I keep saving maps under new names to keep track of what I have done)

Then I tried 5 % fuel and matched timing of rear cylinder to the front cylinder since it's basically less timing in the rear... guess what...

Now the front and rear knock are almost keeping pace with each other for Tue most part.... and every now and then, the rear will knock and nothing from the front..its weird!!

I am back to the canned FM map and 5% added fuel and running much less aggressive than I normally do and seems to limit all events to a minimal level, but I can't stand it!!! I ride hard... above 3000rpms almost constantly and shifts are done at 4500 rpm on average...

I have a 120 dammit... not a 60hp put-put machine...

Sorry for the rant... just frustrating as he'll for me

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Spazz,

Have you reached out to Jamie yet? I know you like the DIY approach (I'm the same way) but maybe with some of his expert guidance you can learn for yourself along the way without tearing anything up?

Just a thought. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No... I haven't reached out to Jamie yet.... gonna run a log today and send it to him...

I will keep This updated as I progress

Couldn't run a log yesterday... started dumping rain

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #18
UPDATE:

I spoke to Jamie at length... he has put together a new tune that is based on load rather than TPS ... Running smoother ( so it seems ) and I havent really got out to check it all out on all ranges, but seems to be working much better. Short 20 mile ride last night was all I got in so far.

I have to run a few more datalogs and get more data from TT signals before we progress further.
 
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